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Awesome, you've certainly gotten more comfy on your new bike than that CLS you had. Now should I learn bunnyhopping ?

Actually, if you think about it, they are those lenghts because they are the 'fixed' wheelbases, there was a little diagram of a Monty frame drawing with geometry measurements, the chainstay/wheelbase measurement was taken from the deepest length the axle sits into the dropout. It's more accurate this way to display a product, but less accurate if you want a realistic exact measurement. Mod frames are gonna be longer wheelbase wise in real life compared to the factory measured lengths as seen on websites. Up to around 20-30mm longer perhaps sometimes. Making a CLS Python... have like 385 or even more chainstay length if you measure it realistically

I'm spending the weekend at Hastings, so I hope to bump into you riders!

Hi Onzaallen, I'm about the same height as you like 5 foot 8ish, and I ride the short 05 Python. I've ridden far too many other people's CLS pythons and very few Zona Zips, so I hope I can make a good comparison for you. Basically, the short Python, I feel, has some flickyness, and a bit of leverage at the same time which is all fun fun fun. But it depends what you personally rely on more to get up/get distance on stuff, I personally hate relying on flickyness to get distance on gaps, thats why I *much* prefer Zona Zips and CLS's for gapping. CLS Pythons I rode were all similar, some felt similar to my own bike for some reason . But still, I loved the leverage you could get out of them for gapping and sidehops. Zona Zips felt pretty good, it certainly had the leverage and the flickyness... and it had a bashplate which meant that I could go at things with more confidence without risking denting my BB shell or mullering one end of the downtube near the BB. Zip felt greeeattt for gapping. It's kinda a hard choice, but seeing as the Yao Zhi Python has pretty much the same geometry as the short Echo Team and the Echo Lite, maybe its worth looking into one of those frames if you wanna go short? Because having a bashring when your not incredible is a bit of a nightmare when practising. Bashplates are gonna be a lot more forgiving. The CLS and Zip have both got unique geometry. *Also*, just remembered, Zips are a hell of a lot cheaper and come with a better warranty than the Echo/Zoo warranty. Afterall, there are soo many more options out there nowadays too, so making a final decision could be tough, but if I had the choice out of those 3 originally mentioned: I'd go for the Zip. Although I love riding my YZ bike, I have to say Zoo bikes are waaayyy too overhyped and overrated they have no magical properties whatsoever . sorry for the essay.

I should've brought my Prroooofile uni with me that day . Good ride nonetheless, except for the rain and the fact that I was getting worse and worse at static gapping :$ . Good pics, we must take some more in Kingston.

Yes, if not, probably the Sunday. But definitely on this weekend.

Try-All rear tyre's got about as much grip as the Creepy Crawler, and it seems to have amazing pinch protection, testing it out on a unicycle.. It's got slightly harder sidewalls than CC, so I guess that means slightly better pinch protection, but for the price of £60 or so for the pair... I seriously doubt it's worth going for a set instead of a CC set... Anyway... £12 for a set of Creepy Crawlers for me, and around £20 for a pair of Try-All tyres... It's good to have a friend who can get stuff cheap

I think I'll come too Doh, but can't decide what to come on!

Cool bike. I must have a go on it some day... see if my horribly bad impression of GU's change after riding this one!

I've been thinking about this exact thing recently, I was always thinking about what trials really was back years ago, like trying to ride as far as you can without resting, and trying to ride along thin stuff as long as poss etc.. Now with the modern streety approach everyone does seem to wanna learn backhops and 'cool moves'... The original trials seems to have some what died a little when you look at most novices and people, the sad thing is that some people care a lot about high how you can hop or how far you can gap... Whereas trials is really more about how smooth/controlled you can do a technical line, going back to the comp thing JT was on about.. Not too much to say at this exact moment, but its a good topic to discuss certainly.. Does hopping around on the backwheel beat the traditional style when learning? Oh well, I guess I'm one of 'those' backhop first people, I guess its still possible to become good at the real trials if you set tasks like going for as long as you can over walls/etc(creating lines for yourself). I am a victim of the typical 'street disease' where I don't have that great a stamina when hopping around for ages, and struggle to string several lines together.. Too much of urban riding involves like one move then drop. I think someone like Jeff Lenosky said that it was 'killing the purpose of trials' or something similar, but I may be wrong...

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I need to be lucky, my new Profile 145mm cranks to come before Sunday, so I can fit them onto my Profile Hub. fingers crossed.

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Hmm the rumours are true then... there is a lot of bull and assumptions being made on TF To the point... The Zhi ZM1 is not really a total Python copy, it's got the built-in-booster slightly altered and little bits changed etc. But one thing that is a pretty important change is the headtube angle, geometry's probably same as the short Python in terms of Wb, chainstay etc.. Only the first few seen in Zhi Vid 1 etc. are stickered up Pythons, the proper versions are qutie different. No doubt this headtube angle change is supposed to improve the ride of the ZM1 over the Python.

Is this effect possible to achieve on a 4130 steel frame? I've tried it with an old BMX frame of mine, by hand rubbing the autosol in, I have no drill with mop attached to it! The problem is the finish was no where near as mirror like as that Toxsin frame Hmm, may try again sometime, but this time lacquer it afterwards to stop it rusting

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Awesome, another rider in the area! Yep, there is a nice trials scene in this Surrey area. Kingston, the main shopping town of Surrey is always great for trials and plenty of riders ride there. Woking is another good place to ride too. Hope to ride sometime...

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Kris Holm rim £22 from unicycle.com

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