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Just a point of curiosity, regarding the adamant a1 2006, did any of you like the way it rode? the long one especially. Would it be worth that or a typhoon 07?

there is quite a large chunk of physics behind how geometry affects certain motions and moves. I'd just like to give big wheels a try, for once, as it's different, and something compeltely new to me, both mechanics-wise and ride-wise. I already ride a uni, and it just feels so similar to a mod bike in terms of flickiness, control, etc.. (to a degree). So if I want to do biketrials, I'd like to have it very different to how my uni handles. It's all trials at the end of the day, but it's better to have unity in diversity. I'm not at all into rolling moves. Taps and bunnies aren't a biggie for me, same with rolling gaps. It's something i'll concentrate on more later, but I find static moves more enjoyable and far more practical. A frame's a frame at the end of the day, but different frames feel different, even ever so slightly. I'm also kinda after a multi-purpose bike, something that is better than a mod for cruising around on, able to go riding in the woods with my brother, and also I'll be able to use Esher's Northshore MTB park with 26" wheels. Great cross-training for trials for those who don't know. What's crucial for me is comfort of backwheel control, and comfort for gaps and sidehops. I often ride to the shops at night with my friend just to chill, get some food and drink, so I need a casual mess-around worthy bike that requires minimal effort. I'd hate to have to ride a sluggish feeling bike that takes concentration and effort to do basic stuff. Anyways, high BB it is. Some of you hate it, meh, ok, I like it though from past experience. Importantly, will a 160mm front Avid BB5 be too weak for a front stock end? this is coming off my mod. Thanks for all the input so far!

I hear lots of bad things about high BB frames for rolling ups (taps, bunnyhops) and flat gaps to rear and front. What's the actual detailed phyiscs behind this if anyone knows?

that may be the case for someone who's ridden stock for years, but I'm a mod rider, and from my experiences on peoples' bikes, I find high BB to be very similar in feel. The backwheel control requires minimal effort, and most static moves feel spot on. Whereas low BB is far more foreign to me. Backwheel hopping feels a bit iffy, and the front end always seem to want to dip down easily, I know it takes time to adapt technique and get used to a frame, but first impressions.. always it's high BB that feels nicer at first. I just 'connect' with them. Are there even many differences amongst high BB frames themselves? The 2006 Pitbulls, A1s, and Hifis had pretty much the same BB rise, and maybe 5mm differences in wheelbase, but that's about it? I don't get how they'd feel so damn different to other high BB or eachother? Or am I missing some important subtle point somewhere?

going, going, gone! Yep, i decided to order that myself just now .

I strictly want to be at extremes. but yeah, can someone please go in depth with pros and cons of low and high BB for specific moves? i.e. flat gaps to backwheel, to front wheel, taps to rear and taps to front, sidehops, backwheel control, bunnyhops, general two-wheel comfort. etc..? Thanks

Interesting, so how do you long-term low Bb and long-term high BB users think of your bikes and the way they handle? The only thing putting me off low BB is the fact that backwheel control might be a bit more of a struggle and that sidehops feel worse.

Good afternoon all, yep, this does seem a very generic and constantly reoccuring topic, but I've searched, and I still think a new topic'd give me the most useful info. Here goes, basically, I've ridden a mod for a while, I ride unicycle trials too and have had BMXs in the past, so 20" wheels have been my main focus in my riding lifetime. I've never ever ever owned a bike with bigger wheels, and therefore have minimal experience or knowledge of how to work with vertical dropouts, even though some say I'm a mechanical master with the bikes/unis i own. But importantly, I've been fighting myself on what to get, if i were to move to stock? I have very few options, and I choose it to be this way, but let me know? Low BB: Coustellier St.Blaise V2 (not the Koxx model, the actual Coust) (1080mm, +10mm) High BB: Adamant A1 long 2006 (1095mm, +55mm), Echo Hifi 2006 (1085mm, +55mm) ^those four are the only ones I'd realistically want to get, heavily based on aesthetics as well. the Coust is the only low BB stock I'd want to get if I got one because I am a fan of classic things. Advising me to get a Control or some other low BB bike isn't really going to help. I like high BB very much since when i've ridden them, they feel just like a big mod. I'm not into rolling-type moves, and am very centralised around wanting comfort on the backwheel, and love sidehops and flat gaps to backwheel. Those are my main concerns in trials, other moves are important but all those three have to feel as excellent as possible if I want to enjoy the ride. I hear that Cousts and low BB bikes generally don't sidehop as comfortably as high BB stocks do, yet they are better for taps and bunnies? True or false? I know there's the whole thing with getting used to the bike, but at the end of the day, no matter how much you get used to something, its geometry will have serious influence that you can't change. So I want to get it right, now. Many people here seem to hate high BB stocks, ok fair enough, but I'm someone who has loved them in the past and would very much like one. But at the same time, I'm thinking of the St.Blaise even though it's low BB. Whenever I've tried low BB stocks, the front end always seems to want to dip down and it seems a fight to stay on the backwheel. Even when I get completely used to it, I fear that still, it might feel a bit like a fight. How are you finding it? Do remember the St.Blaise is +10mm... so it is fairly damn low. So what do you think? Saint Blaise is so damn tempting. mmm

Biff mentioned a bit back that Craig's best was 56".

Same as the 05 long and 06 I believe? except the headtube of the 04 is 110mm, whereas the 05, 06, 07 are 100mm.

Hahaha, Rich, that comment was with regards to Joe, and not to myself I wouldn't encourage not wearing a helmet. I know that this forum as a very pro-helmet attitude, which is great! But that comment was giving an explanation partly as to why Joe doesn't wear a helmet: in short: he can bail like a flying squirrel. I would not be confident on natural without a helmet, but he gets away with it, he's got all that background from skating and is a pretty good freerunner (by pure luck, not that he practises!) so he's got the art of bailing sorted. We're talking unicycle trials as well, when you're at high enough a level, the risk difference between hitting your head by riding a uni and bike is very wide. Head-hitting is damn rare for uni trials, but still, it's good practice to wear a helmet. Some choose to, some don't.

argh,

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I wasn't criticising the 08 Disc frames (well, apart from that they'd be better as U6) The 06 frame came in only one length by the way (but in v-brake and magura versions) The 07/08 Magura version with the extra cramped design is flawed. From an aesthetic point of view, the dropouts are far too chunky (why did they change it from the moderate ones on the 06 and early 07s?). Some frames have angled dropouts so the wheel doesnt clamp very well as opposed to straight facing dropouts, Chai's bike suffers from this heavily as an example. Plus a fair number have broken the newest Magura Lites, they've mostly cracked at the dropout area after not so long. Plus the seattube on the newest Magura Lites are ridiculously cramped and in theory this means a flexier frame as a side-effect, and there's no CNC'd reinforcement or reinforcement of any sort to help stiffen it. I've spoken to friends in China and plenty have broken the Lites, and some Pures as a matter of fact. Plus Deng did say that he'd concentrate on further improving the design. That's just the 07/08 magura Lites. The other Lites are better.

Yep, steer well away from the 07/08 Magura versions. They are the worst incarnation of the Lite frame. The 06 mirror-finish one had a decent simple design, as did the first 07 version which was the same as the 06 except it was brushed instead of mirror-finished. The 08 Discs actually look nice to be honest, I like the dropouts in all honesty. The only thing putting me off is that they are made of 6061

I disagree on a lot of the points. I used to have a Lite, a 2006 edition, before they messed it up. Firstly, it's made of 6061, which puts it at a disadvantage to U6 frames (yeah yeah, design plays a major role, but Lites aren't designed well either). The 07/08 magura Lites have serious rear end problems (and look ugly too, tooo damn cramped). For example, Chai was having serious troubles with his rear end because the dropouts are manufactured so they are angled, meaning the wheel doesn't clamp as well as if they were totally flat facing eachother. Plus many have cracked the dropouts on the 07/08 magura frames which are unnecessarily huge as well. The thing about stiffness... well, theoretically, the Lite shouldn't be a very stiff frame seeing as how the seattube is so damn cramped and low on the 07/08 magura ones especially. It looks ugly, and as you know, generally smaller seattubes= a flexier frame. This is why Pythons used to have those CNC'd sideplates... and also why the 08 GU Typhoons have so much CNC'ing reinforcement to help stiffen the low frame up. The Lite should be a flexy frame, as Deng explicity described to me in an email. It's a budget option (£20 buys a Lite or Pure in China since they are 6061) with an OKish design. I just hope they can improve them. The Disc 08 frames don't look too bad to be honest. I FAR prefer them to the 07/08 Magura versions which are the single ugliest mod I've seen in recent years, why the need for such chunky dropouts? I don't mind the disc dropouts in all honesty, at least they are low-profile and have a better weld-contact area than the terrible Magura versions. Just my opinion, but hey..

This is just stupid. really really E-grade brainwork here. No offence. The fact that you have so many contact details for him puts you at a huge advantage. You could easily trace his address or any addresses with the multiple phone numbers you have. As someone said earlier... phone his mum and tell her what's happened, most parents will be pissed off that their son is being a lazy git and scamming someone. Or alternatively you could as a last resort threaten to make a scene at his workplace in front of his seniors. there's so much you can do seeing as you have his details. Just do something about it.

Looks awesome Inur! I love the blackness of it. Very stealth I haven't read any other posts in this topic yet, but I assume you mod'd the rear King hub from an ISO disc shell to fit a BMX King axle? If you did, was it hard hard work? and would it work fine without the need for any adaptors? Say... if you wanted to run it on a double-disc Echo Lite or GU Street? Little note: running snail cams in that position is really dodgy . I've mangled a few on slipped sidehops, and they can bend a bit, even though it's thick alu. It's weird because depending on your chainstay length and length of adjustibility in the dropout slot, snail cams can be either great or terrible. I love my 04 Python because it's such that the snail cams can be run in the best position possible (pointy nose sticking directly upwards whilst maintaining perfect tension). With some frames, it's impossible to get them in a good position . But it varies with different chains, cams, frames etc... What I once did was just cut the snail cams' nose off, to make it more low-profile if it had to be run with the nose pointing downwards, so at least it's all out of the way

lol, contrary to popular (yet silly) belief, you never hit your balls on the saddle. Ever. You'd have to be a compete spaztard to do that or run your saddle waaaayyy too high. The saddles are curved, so there is a dip in the middle, basically if any part of your body's gonna hit the sadde, it's your bum cheeks. Even so, on the biggest drops, you never really hit your bum either.

done

Just wondering, how come LE's are so damn popular? They are extremely simple and minimalist frames, but I would've thought that GU Streets or Typhoons would still be more popular?

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The old T-Master is nice.. for having up on the wall as a retro item. Other than that, it rides severely averagely, and those frames are known to bend (which is rare for an alu frame). Why not just wait for the new T-Master? The dropped chainstay one... or just buy one of the prototypes (someone was selling a proto t-master on here not so long ago)