Sponge

Ok, so the conclusion is that Shimano BB tools can not fit over ISIS axles? If so, damn.. As for crank extraction, will 5p coins still work for the extra thin ISIS axles? There is pretty much less than a millimetre of axle area to press against.

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Plazmatic freewheel? Sounds cool. I think the Echo freewheels got discontinued because of their unreliable characteristics. But if they were shut down for the removal spline reason, then that is oh so very spiteful of Onza to be totally honest. Heck... it's a freakin' removal spline, nothing revolutionary, and something that the Japanese have used for their Bottom Brackets for decades.

For 2007, the GU mod and stock frames only came in the one and only 'medium' length. on-paper geo: 1030mm wb 362mm cs +55mm bb 72 deg ha not entirely sure on the front end reach. Email Tartybikes, i'm sure they've got the geo and old pages for old products stored somewhere in their database

Hello all, I'm just curious as to how rear disc 'all works out' in the mod horizontal dropouts? On forks and stocks, they are easy enough since the hub is fixed straight and solid in the one and only possible position due to the vertical dropout, so the caliper alignment is only natural. However, on mods, the hub is adjustable in the dropouts, but the caliper is fixed, so firstly we have to tension the chain with the right snail cam. BUT, this is where I start to get a tad lost... normally when I use rim brakes I just centre the wheel straight between the frame stays and then adjust the brake from there. However, with rear disc how should I go about adjusting the rear end? Should I always keep an eye on the rotor alignment with pads whilst turning the left snail cam? Right now, the rotor is at a slight angle in the rear caliper, so I guess I don't get MAX power out of it. Just incase this is of any help: I use, an '08 BB7 with those shoddy slippidy Echo snail cams. Thanks in advance! I'm hoping this topic can be used by other rear mod disc newcomers for advice too.

Pardon me, but I don't believe I ever said *that* about the 2008 frames. On paper, I am in belief that the 2004, 2005 (long), and 2006 Pythons all had the same geo and relatively same feel (obviously depends on position of axle in dropouts). I never stated that these had different geos. I also didn't say that the 2008 frames would look like the 2004 Pythons, bank on it. Maybe I might have said "It'd be cool if...", but never said "It will be like..." For those curious, the 2008 frames from Zoo are out in October (word from Deng's national dealers) ... rather late... I wanted to get one though. Design-wise, Deng knows his 2007 frames are unpopular in comparison to the 2006, etc.. the Chinese riders agree on that too. As of the last email I received a couple of months back... the Wings are back...

Double-walled rims for the front aren't entirely necessary, unless you're a serious basher. Senor Rodriguez runs a 28h Monty front rim, and I'm now starting to really believe the benefits of weight saving. It's subtle, but if done in the right parts here and there, it makes the bike feel a pleasure to ride. Nothing worse than to have a heavy sluggish feeling bike which feels like a fight on the backwheel. Maybe for 26" it's slightly different, but for mod at least, 28h with single wall is really light and at not so great a strength penalty. If it makes the bike feel more fun to ride, why not?

Thanks for that tutorial vid! Woah, this brake is a lot simpler than I ever thought, even more so than my super old BB5 on my stock...! Just need to ask you disc technies out there ... I'm building a bike up in China so I can ride with my friends there, if my first 2 options fail, I'm going for a DD mod. Thing is, all hydro brakes are imports from the West, so the price is ridiculously high in China, so I have to go for a BB7 to keep price down. Will having 180mm BB7s on the front and back be far too powerful for just a double-disc mod? Seeing as people say the 160mm is horrendously powerful enough already. I'd rather not the extra unnecessary power if a 160mm is already powerful enough, since bigger rotors kill forks and frames fastish.

Really nice! Was it OBM's by any chance? I seem to remember those specific Tensiles, no bashplate, and the monster dent on the downtube Twas really nice when I had a bum around on it back in 06..

sorry, but, might i enquire as to exactly what method your LBS employed when removing the first cup out of the frame? To dent a toptube is pretty bad... ruining a good frame and something for which people should be given compensation for...

Fun Fact of the day: There is a high probability that Deng is leaning towards producing more 'streety' bikes for the future. It is definitely a high consideration of his, however there are still no promises for them to be materialised quite yet. The Czar Freetrials being a first taste. This is what I've been informed of by a few dealers and shop owners in China, one of whom was a former employee of Echo. I think the Olympics is slowing everything down in China for the time being. Shouldn't be too long

Honestly, Shimano UN53s are by far the best square taper BBs. I swear by them, and not by the generic stuff churned out by VP, Viz, Onza, Echo The plastic non-drive cup on the Shimanos is also a nice idea. Saves weight, and it's not so harmful for your frame threads. Plus you can afford to tighten it like a mooother without worrying too much about stripping

email Adam at Tartybikes. He usually will know how to service/repair most things! I do remember clearly, a while ago, where Adam said it was possible but it was hard work. An email to him would give you everything you need to know about these Deng headsets.

mmm, doesn't this say something about Deng's quality back then? Simple but strong. Smaller batches being made, and Deng was starting to make a name for himself so making tough lightweight frames were a must. Sadly now that he's so heavily commercialised, he can afford to slacken on the quality front these days. The bashplate threads are totally fine. Not a single problem. But the initial roadblock i came up against when I first bought it off Olly was that the old bashplate on it (properly battered and flattened) was bolted on with nuts screwed on the ends at the chainstays, so basically over time it had seized up a bit so it was a nightmare getting that bolt out because the nut seized so tight. Eventually I just got it dremelled the nut in half.. and out came the bolt with an easy few allen key turns. So now the new bashplate on that is pretty immaculate and I made sure to do each bolt evenly and at a good tightness with black washers and personally cut piece of rubber. Perfectionism goes a long way Post a video sometime ! EDIT: also, none of the damage was at my hands either. So it's been scratched and dented for years already. If it's lasted Olly and myself all this time in it's current state then it sure has plenty more ahead. I'd like to see a 2008 Deng frame put up this kind of fight!

Looks awesome, but people will be screaming: KAMEL!

Inur's actually got it just about right. Despite what some may think, the 05 CNC'd rims didn't go with the 2004 frames. If you look at some of the release pictures of the 2004 model, it came with the original old school standard silver Echo rims. Also, Zoo! stems were a 2005 thing too. If those cranks were silver and the stem had an older logo, everything would be perfect . But geometrically and component-wise, it's keeping to the 2004 Damn damn, you make me want a mod again! I'm feeling a 2008 Python full bike off the shelf when I go see my grandmother.

Haha Danny, you had the chance to buy this beauty! This was the exact one you had a reservation over a few months back!

My old lovely lady! Glad it's gone to a good home. Inur, you are officially this slippery tree serpent's Fifth owner. This old girl does get around a lot doesn't she? enjoy it

Or just take the easy route and go to any good bikeshop, a roadie bike shop even! and buy a starnut for * 1 inch steerers *.

I only met Robert once, this was on a very old London ride, there was even a video of that ride he made! Spoke to him briefly, but what a guy. So down-to-earth and very kind to everyone. His first impression has stuck with me this whole time. Rest in peace Janson, you will be missed.

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Cheers, it does take time to get used to though! Backwheel control is only starting to become familiar now. Same for gaps. Backwheeling up and anything rolling feels pretty weird. This is coming from a Python with months out of riding haha My little brother does Taekwondo and a special form of Karate. But he's taking the picture whilst I'm doing the kick. I do Taekwondo and Capoeira, with a bit of B-boy mixed in for flare.

2nd is an 05, seen both these pics on OTN ages ago

68mm Pretty much all frames are 68mm these days. (Onza, Deng, Koxx, Monty etc..).. except the odd funny few brands like Vario

Luke, i bet you've heard the expression: "I can't afford to buy cheap" For those that need explaining , it basically means that buying budget cheap components= more expensive in the long run since you keep breaking them sooner etc.. etc.. That being said, a set of more well-known Echo Urban or Pure/Control forks would be better. Since they are pretty damn light these days anyway. Also on paper they are much much better than Neons?... Echos have: 9mm CNC disc mount (not that you need it but anyways), super thick alu steerer, pressed and welded join.. rather than crappy bonded steerers. A set of Echo Pures/Controls cost 70/75 pounds... with a decent warranty and pretty good reputation behind it (yes... I know some people have snapped the backward magura mount versions... but that speaks for itself really?... but you're going for the V version so you're not risking it as much). Plus, they come in either black or silver... which saves you stripping away the gash gold or blue of Neon (which would void Neon's warranty if you changed the colour remember!) All in all, it'd better to get some simple Echos of some sort. Since the time and money you'd spend on getting the Neon forks stripped and painted will end up being more than the Echo forks cost. I hope that made sense?