Sponge

Just hopping on to check emails before starting the day, and randomly punched in www.echobike.com... Surprise results!: 26" models with Spanish BB and integrated chain tensioner system. 24" pure trials orientated model with same BB and tensioning as stock. 20" in only one option: Spanish BB, disc+rim mounts. -Those eagle-eyed out there'll notice the tweaked/updated Echo disc brake! -さようなら ~ Vertical dropouts and Euro BBs no more. -If all the frames come with factory faced/reamed headtubes like it seems on the Zoo! frame then that's pretty sweet! -No word yet on a Zoo! 20", though it's a safe bet that it'll aesthetically be a smaller version of that 26" like previous years. All the info is on the Echobike site, but hopefully this topic should be easier for everyone to get the info they need and to discuss!

According to a reliable source in China as of earlier of this year, a long geo Python ala 04/05/06 was/is supposed to be coming... But plans always change so there's no guarantee. It seems a fairly unheard of geo in recent years, as the trend seems to be massively high BBs and short reach/cs.

They're not awful, but I was disappointed with mine. A fair few people did split the shell and stripped the ratchet ring inside. They're designed mainly for BMX and not aggressive pedal kicking like in trials so seeing how they die so quickly on modstocks it's a little indicator that these aren't quite as up to the trials forces as say a Hope Pro II or Chris King. Echo SL freewheel still blows it out of the water though.

These days everyone recommends the Der Kaiser, if it fits your frame!

After reading that all the new Deng frames are coming with Spanish BBs, that got me thinking a little... since in BMX it all got simplified in the headtube and BB region at some point this decade with the Mid/Spanish BBs and the Integrated (not Internal) headsets... Would it be plausible to expect integrated headtubes on trials frames in the future? For those that aren't familiar, it's just the headtube is machined in such a way that it takes an angular sealed bearing that just plops in, so no real demand for facing or pressing in cups.I suppose you'd lose a bit of weight too? I guess it'd just make bike maintenance that little bit simpler too since the risk of flaring and worrying about perfectly parallel sitting cups isn't an issue anymore. Seems to work well on my Flatland BMX, no wobble or heard of any other street hackers having any issues? Though so far two little quirks come to mind: -Machining out aluminium headtubes to fit integrated headsets might not be as 'foolproof' as a steel BMX headtube? Softer metal... -You'd need fairly competent quality control to make sure that everything actually fits together properly. Mark, you probably know a bit more about integrated than I do so if there's any tweaks that need to be ironed out...! Just an idea that popped into my head, but hey it's fun to imagine...

TartyBikes is the only shop I trust to carry out quality service. Mainly only stuff like chasing BB threads, facing headtubes, fitting headsets, and in future: wheelbuilds. Every other bikeshop will mess something up from my experience so all the rest of maintenance is done in my room with some James Brown in the background.

Interesting! By the way, did your Tensile booster come with 50mm long bolts instead of the standard 45mm ones? I have one sat here to put on my brother's new stock, but when experimenting it seemed the bolts were a tad long and bottomed out in the frame before any tightness could be reached. I wasn't using any washers since mine came without any (2nd hand), are you using washers on the topsides and undersides of the booster by chance?

Agreed, it seems they haven't updated that site in over a year. I'm inclined to think that promoting preview pictures and info of new products for the new year would only help garner interest and increase the chances of people wanting to buy them? Seemed to work out pretty well when he first released CAD images of the Adamant A3 and other 07 frames. Same goes for the pre-release of the Lynx/Piranha?

Thanks to everyone who replied, especially Shaun. That was the kind of answer I was looking for! As soon as I first glanced at the depth part I immediately had thoughts that a 12mm thick booster like the old Echo Control or Heatsink ones would be stiffest. The Tensile is 10mm thick, though seems an overall larger booster? It's interesting that you say the Tensile is stiffest of them all. Guess that works out pretty well as they're the cheapest too! /// Re: the spacers on Tensiles, were you referring to these fat ones with the lines circling the length of them? Are they actually a fair bit longer than the normal thinner spacers you see on other boosters?

This Team right?: My first impressions seeing that frame was: "Wow, what a tank of a mod." IMO, the smartest and best representation of what the Team model is. I didn't think I ever heard of one to crack that year, same goes for the Controls of that year too. Some European sites and one or two like biketrialstation.com still carry a few old frames left as unwanted stock. 08 GUs incl. the Typhoons are still readily available, last resort is to import one from a certified online dealer in China (of which there are a few if you look at TaoBao). I think Trialprod still has an 07 Typhoon mod too. Trialmarkt still has some 07 Czars in both wheel sizes.. same goes for the 07 Python/Pitbull which is still up on Trialmarkt.de

Haha! That's going to be serious overkill! I'm not going quite that far, but thanks for the suggestion though! The most I'm willing to spend is £35, which is what the new Ttech one costs... The Tensile and HS seem to have a thicker profile overall, especially the Tensile having a really straightforward simple design. In this case, is it fair to use overall booster thickness as one measure of stiffness? .. But taking into account the rest of the design of the booster. I don't think Trialtech would release a flimsy flexy 4-bolt booster after all this time, so I'm pretty curious about how a thinner well-designed booster fares against the brutishly thick and simple ones? I understand that almost no-one'll have used all 3 to give a fair comparison from experience, but I'm just hoping to find an answer through objective analysis, with no bias of what brand or weight. The booster is just one part I personally just look for only its main function: to provide as much reinforcement/stiffness as possible and nothing else. I figure there are other more effective areas to save weight on, not that it really matters for this particular mod I'm building up as it's a bit of a beat 'em up throw around bike to relearn some techniques and learn new ones. I'll worry more about weight saving when my riding ability reaches a point where it can really benefit from it.

There's a useful article on G-Sport's site that goes into mathematical detail about how to calculate the straightest chainline with just a ruler. It works, but it doesn't take into account if the cranks are going to foul with the frame... but that's not too much of a problem on most setups? Unless you're riding a blue GU LE or something. As for the 135mm TR hub, there's one that's going onto my brother's new Pitbull so I tried eyeballing to see how straight the chainline was with the bare hub and sprocket. Here's what that bike is using; -128mm Echo TR BB -Echo SL freewheel -Echo 135mm TR hub -Echo TR sprocket ^With that, the chainline is straight I've found. I didn't bother with G-Sport's article this time around for this bike because it seemed pretty darned straight as can be. I think the key was having the Echo TR sprocket which has its teeth sat right in the middle instead of being offset to the outside. I suppose if you get a matching TR sprocket with the TR hub, and if you don't get an Echo SL freewheel, you could calculate how many freewheel spacers you'd need to put behind your current one to push into alignment with the rear hub/sprocket. I believe TartyBikes has some really useful dimensions for each freewheel on the site showing the overall thickness of each freewheel so you could see how much thicker/thinner your current freewheel is than the Echo SL which seems a perfect couple with the Echo TR hub/sprocket combo as far as getting an easy straight chainline goes.

Hey, I was just wondering about this and wanted to see if there were any riders that know much about the design of boosters.. in that I mean if it's possible to predict/theorize if Booster A is stiffer than Booster B? I ask this because I really enjoy having the stiffest brake possible, with absolutely minimal flex. It just feels better at the lever and in general for me personally. Moreover, I'm building up a certain mod slowly, which I know has major issues with brake mounts cracking looking at its track record on the forums over the years... so I also want to reduce any chance of that as well. I'm mainly comparing 3 boosters: Heatsink, Trialtech 4-bolt, and Tensile Over the years I've picked up that there are a lot of lighter parts that are stronger/stiffer than heavier parts, so wondered about boosters. I realise that the Tensile and Heatsink boosters are comparatively heavy at almost 200g each. Whilst the T-tech is around 1/3 or so of that weight. I'm just looking for a completely objective opinion if it's possible to see how optimized the booster shape is for stiffness. In short, I'd just like to know which one offers the stiffest performance and only that. I don't mind about weight at all as it's only 100g extra for the heaviest. Whilst I'd like to support a rider-owned brand like Trialtech (of which I'm going to run several other components) if another brand's (cheaper) booster is going to give me the tiniest percentage more stiffness then I'll go for one of those. I realise the T-tech probably has the best stiffness:weight ratio of the three but I'm totally discounting weight in this case. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Nice! Looks fun! How's the booster? Super stiff? I've always wanted to try one of those out...

Easy.... Rules are rules, but he's just a guy that really wants to get riding soon. I wouldn't want to enter a community of riders that flamethrower me for not knowing the Code of the Forum straight up. / --- But yeah, just post a bit more, ask a few questions if you can't find the exact answer through search function. Along the way you'll learn a few things about techniques, which parts are worth looking out for or avoiding, and trials itself. Good luck! and have fun

I think my ACS Freewheel back in 05/06 skipped less than my Profile did in 07 or so. Every few rides a skip, and then eventually it developed wobble so had to get new bearings and shims for it. Still worked less than satisfactory and got rid of it to someone who want an aesthetically brilliant hub. FFW set up these days are much better in almost every single way. Especially with the Echo SL and Trialtech Sport freewheels. EDIT: Most of the good stuff you'll hear about Profiles is in 05 and 06 posts since back then there was only really the ACS (36ep only), White Industries which was and still is fairly expensive for understandable reasons, and the King BMX for the splashers. These days, I think most people will honestly say that the current offering of freewheels is a lot better. There's tons of posts about the advantages of FFW.

At least for the 08 Typhoon this is true! The others were pretty hefty to be fair like the 07 Team, Control, and Adamants. But yeah, I second Mark's comment the current Piranha (and Lynx) are pretty sweet! Their track records are pretty damn good considering how light/well-priced they are. I've only heard of NT to break one so far, whereas you'll find almost every 05/06 'almighty' Python with cracked brake mounts or near the booster piece. Edit: If you're deadset on having an older frame which is understandable you have: www.trialprod.com and www.trialmarkt.de (I think that's right?) based in France and Germany respectively.

New frames sound nice! Though I'm happy with what I have! Could be nice if Deng offered different axle lengths other than 128mm, just for those who are having major alignment issues with wide BBs!

I know it's not exactly what you want to hear, but maybe getting some better ones from a certain major trials retailer might work out better But spending on a pair of nice Nike Dunks or other skate style shoes might be better? At least can be used for everyday wear, grips on pinned pedals (depending on sole) as well if not better than trials boots? Fancy myriad of colour choices ahoy!

First trials vid I've really really enjoyed watching in a long time. The moves they were doing on the sloped walls and in other parts of the vid, looked daringly fun and very impressive. A rider like Benito clearly has some kind of 'streetiness' to his riding, and if asked to ride more like a BMX with a video release I'm sure it'd be really popular to watch and very enjoyable. After watching this, I am gradually more and more looking past the preconception that mods "aren't suited for streety 24 style riding". Aside from mods looking a bit awkward, I really enjoyed the smoothness and flow of both riders adding a bit of spinny/rolly flair. It was definitely more inspiring and in some ways more creative than most brakeless 24" videos I've seen in recent times, and no disrespect meant in any way to those riding 24 brakeless... it's something I don't and can't do but I still take my cap off to those gutsy enough to try it! Watching mod vids like these inspire me to go out riding the most for sure! But that's just my personal preference at the end of the day! Looking forward to another vid from these beasts!

That is pretty damn sweet! Nice one man! Geo looks pretty comfy I must say. One thing I'm really impressed about is your forks! Are they still the same Viz ones from around 5 years ago?! As for shipping from Peru, were you lucky enough not to get stomped by Customs? They've been pretty harsh to me about getting stuff from the US in recent years, haha! Guess I'll see y'around London one of these months then, Peace!

Aside from the beginner spec bikes that have dual HS33s, there are a few advanced riders that go back to front HS33 from disc and they mostly have mentioned that the technique for front wheel moves is a lot more aggressive. More on-off and less modulation than a front Hope.

When I first saw it, it reminded me of one of those cheap and cheerful Zhi stocks. I seem to remember dual colours fading into eachother. Not a huge fan of this frame personally, but it falls in line with the modern trend these days. I'm sure it'll be pretty popular

Randomly found this viewing NT's videos on his site. Since Neil doesn't use the forums that much I hope he doesn't mind if I go ahead and paste these off his site. Thought some people might be interested in this! After 8 years of green, adios!