Tech04 thanks Mark also we at ymsa have trid to add in the making of extra sections ie cotton reels and pallets etc skips also, its not the same here as in the euro trials we are so differant in many ways there comps are strong on the fact that the folks that run them work together for the sport but here they all just kick off at each other ( and stab each other in the back ), so lots of riders hit the street as its more easy to get to and enjoy with no family help, most riders in europe are fully backed by there family taking them to the comps etc taking them to train also, there are only a hand full of familys in the UK with this type of push in trials, as i am sorry to say the family thing is not as strong in the UK as it is in lets say France etc. so to sum it up we are not in any way like the rest of europe and it hard to ask us to measure up to them.. thanks Dave Butler