Phatpads were the same as the pads I used to sell, but I believe Mike may have changed them slightly now. TNN asked me to send them some of my material, I don't know for sure if it's the same, no doubt different places don't make the compound exactly the same. either way, my pads which were the same as Mikes (old?) pads had VERY good bite, but not grat hold (which is why I liked it in my vee as it has the opposite effects). The TNN pads (Which I havn't used) appear to have more hold and less bite than my pads, so who knows if it's the same.