Steve-A

I disagree there. The pure brakeless riding thats shown in this video couldn't really be used, but elements of it could be. There's a hypothetical section, maybe a roll down then a rock to get up, and its slippy and wet. Negotiating the roll down would be hard enough when the rocks/muddy bank have no grip, but if you were confident at riding with no brakes you could possibly spot a line to roll down and then lip up, similarly to some of the lines in this video. Thats just a very simple and obvious example, the point I'm more trying to make is that if you understand riding without brakes then you can be more prepared for any situation. Another obvious one is muddy comps where brakes don't work as well. If your capable of riding brakeless then the small amount of braking power you have left will be plenty to get you through the section. I don't think you could turn up at a comp with no brakes on your bike and do well. I don't think most people could turn up at a street ride with no brakes and have as much fun as they could with brakes, but the video shows a new way to approach riding rocks, that can and will filter down in part to the general riding public approach.

That was great. I love how much control and precision must go into the riding, that seems so fast and flowing. Truly man and machine working as one. I really like the way he's pushing his riding, pushing the boundaries of what can be done without stopping. Maybe he will find ways to do moves, that people normally do with brakes, faster and smoother than possibly before. One things for sure it is great to watch. I think it was thousands of times better than the first brakeless video, for 3 reasons. The intro to the first video was too long and drawn out. I can see what they were trying to do, but it just didn't work. Secondly plenty of bmx/street MTB riders could do pretty much all the lines in the first video, they were impressive for a trials bike, but not impossibly by any means. The third and final reason, the biggest in my eyes, is that most of the moves in the first video didn't really require any/much brakes. In this video a good 50% of the lines would be considered impossible brakeless by pretty much everyone. This video is the true progression and inspiration that the first brakeless video didn't quite manage.

I had Fall Guys on my mod, they did weigh lots, but they were also indestructible as far as I could tell. Similar to Paul Oliver I've also ridden Gusset Jury forks ( no SL so cant comment on those). This particular pair of gusset jurys really were the village bicycle. A local rider used them for 2 years, before Tim Stedman thrashed them for another couple, and snapped lots of frames/bars whilst using them. Then Matt Burrows used them for a year or two, again thrashed the crap out of them. I've used them for 6months, I think some of the other old Worcestershire have used them for a good stint too. This same pair of forks are still gonig strong. But good god are they heavy!

I've also found the GPS great. As I said in my previous post its not 'sat nav' like you'd have in a car. You cant get it to read instructions to you. BUT it is full google maps, so you can search places, and see you position with respect to those places, with either road, satellite or hybrid maps. You can get directions to follow from your current location to any destination. So if, for example, you were walking round a new city trying to find a gig venue or something it can give you a line to follow on a map, or a set of directions and as your walking you can see a blue dot that represents you position moving along the map.

I've got one. Its great. I dont have much experiance with any of the LG phones but this is what I can tell you bout living day to day with the iphone. Its really easy to use, screens good, bright and readable no matter the conditions. Using it as a normal phone is easy enough and works just as well as any other. Texting is great with the touch keyboard, and I love the auto spelling, as it not only corrects for obvious spelling errors, but also for keyslip, that are easily made due to the small keyboard. It was a bit odd to begin with but now I'm used to it, I can type almost as quick as on a normal full size keyboard. The fact that the texts come up in context, kinda like an msn convo for each person is nice, but annoying if your sending texts to multiple people, as it starts a new 'conversation', then when people reply it goes back to their individual ones. Internets great, i find myself picking up the phone and surfing, if i just wanna check train times, or an ebay item, rather than starting up the computer as its there and ready to go right away. Internet speed does vary loads. If your not in the right area and down to 2g network its rather slow, but if your just trying to check train times while on a ride or something still adequate, when I've got good 3g coverage its quite feasible to watch programs on bbc iplayer whilst passenger in a car for example. I pod works just as well as any other, The headphones can work as hands free, with a small button/microphone blob that hangs by your chin. You can also use this button to skip track, which as I listen on shuffle alot I find useful. The Maps application works great, really useful for not getting lost, but it isn't a sat nav substitute. As a passenger in a car I can use it to guide the driver, and its really good and useful, but as a driver its useless without someone to operate the map. Largely due to the fact that the phone will sleep after 1 min without a user input (aslong as your not watching video etc) The camera is 2mp, and there's no video function. To be honest I've not missed it. Although only 2mp the cameras perfectly good in bright light, and the picture taken with camera look great on the screen, which is mostly where camera phone picture belong anyway. Apparently 3rd party developers are making an application that will offer controls for camera, such as exposure, and will offer video recording. Alas there is no flash, which is a pain sometimes, but not often. Apps from the app store are quite fun. Some of the little games are enough to keep my occupied when bored, and some of the other utility applications are great, such as applications that use the micro phone to listen to music playing and tell you what, pointless but usefull when you wanna know what songs playing in a bar for example, and the apps free. The apps dont really add much value, they are more novelty, but kinda usefull novelty. Its worth reading reviews on app store as quality varies lots. Battery life is good when not played with, but quickly get used up if playing games surfing the net etc. I thin ki get about a true 4/5 hours of play time, and I've only managed about 2 days not playing trying to test stand by time, at which point it was still showing pretty much full charge. I do worry bout scratching it, so have been more careful than other phones, but its survied a few falls ok. Thats all I can think of now. Basically I like it, and its usable enouhg day to day that its taken over some of the functions I use my home computer for.

I agree with you there. People do look upto good videographers in trials, but its not often a high priority. Its a cultural thing I guess. As proven by responces in this thread, some riders will openly say all they want is clips of people riding, no filler, no atmosphere. And I can only assume that wit hvideos comprising of this the flashy antics peopel put into their videos to liven things up a bit. Theres a time and a place for flashy antics, [Rowly] Everyone has to go too far to known that they've gone too far [/Rowly]. Only with experiance can you know whats the bets lien to take in making videos. Whilst I've been learning to make videos I've been taught many lessons, one I'll allways remember that video editing comes down to taste values. You have to adjust your video to suit the taste of those watching, and every editing and shooting decision you ever make allways comes down to taste. Talking of which. Heres one of my videos, thats appaulingly flashy. Showing little taste, very ott. None the less its one of my favorites! Ah the joys of beeing 15...(or so) Youtube Video -> ">" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">

I agree with what your saying mark about the practicalities of filming a BMX video and what works best. But I stand by the fact that they are as similar to each other as each TGS clips to metal music video is to the next. I quite like the feel of BMX vids its great, and people pick nice sunny shots to open with because it looks nice, but that doesn't stop it feeling a little dull after a while. I reason I mentioned trials copying BMX is because thats basically how the thread started, 'why cant trials videos be as cool as this...' in other words. You must see where I'm coming from about genre specific editing/shooting/direction styles? There are amateur trials videos that are technically as good as BMX videos like the Mike Mastroni one you posted. But as others have touched on, there's a larger pool of BMX videos to choose from, and I'm sure plenty are as rubbish as most trials videos. Anyway as you say this isn't about BMX Vs Trials vids. There's no reason trials videos shouldn't be entertaining. Just the current state of trials videos is stagnant and needs shaking up.

To me Mark that is very similar to the others. So lets rip it apart. We open with rolling shots, low down fish eye. Now People use these show because they look great some times, so fair enough. Its nice golden sunshine, friends about, fairly ambient electro/rock song. 9 out of 10 shots fish eye, zoom out as rider approaches, zoom in and whip pan, or zoom to follow as rider goes away from camera. Grungy gritty title graphic, very nicely executed. Also in that video, I felt there was little dynamic change The pace stayed constant , even as the music changed. I watched it through, but I was bored after 1/2 way mark. The riding was cool, and I'd watch the video for the riding, even if the video itself bored me, but thats not the point here. To me thats the same as every 'good' BMX video. Its the same with most extreme sports. I'm quite into climbing and when I look at climbing videos they are all the same. If its a dvd, open with montage of cool shots, people miles up cliff faces etc. Then travel montage, then try some routes, fall off lots. Have some bloke chat about how this is 'awesome' and how 'stoked' he is on this line, then see him send it. They all follow this pattern. Again with the very popular high saturation and subtle white diffusion thats common place with sports videos of the moment. Now the reason they use white diffusion is that DV and HDV are both compressed formats that end up with very harsh whites, so a bit of white diffusion is often appealing to look at but its mostly over done IMO. I'm kinda off topic here I guess, but most forms of video have their own style that they settle into. Go watch a bunch of recent horror films they will all use the same treatment etc. its very hard to break the mold and come up with a new way of making a video thats pleasing. I suspect most extreme sports videos follow patterns they do as it has eveolved over many years and is effectivly the best way to convey the 'story' they have to tell. But there's no denying that from an artistic point of view its often dull and monotonous. To copy BMX videos will never work for trials. What's needed is to find a pattern, to find a style that works for trials, making it both interesting , and have an atmosphere aswell as showing off how big that sidehop really was. So people, go out and create!

You raise a good point about the filming buddy Matt. When a video is shot by an individual then it has a consistency to it, even if thats a constant shakey wonky feel . When a video is shot by lots of randomers, each holding the camera differently, each looking for different things when they look through the view finder, it'll often end up feeling bitty. Finding a camera man who works well with you and your riding, or vice versa, is very important. To carry on using you as an example Matt, you say to you smoothness is key. Even a concept as small as that can be basis that links the whole video and gives it that together feeling. As long as between the rider the camera man and the editor the original vision is kept as a focus for the video. Going back to BMX videos, if you watch a full length DVD each rider has their own style, and if its a good video each segment would be shot and editing slightly different to express the rider more. The techy guys will need a different approach to the guys who are all about going big. Like wise, and obviously, a TGS video needs a very different approach to a streety 24" video.

While I'm on a roll.... I think another factor is the size of BMX. There are plenty of lame BMX videos about, but they wont get seen by trials riders they will get lost in the BMX forums. So its only really fair to compare the best trials video to them. I know people are mentioning Rowan's videos, now Rowan's a great rider and an awesome guy, but its its riding that keeps those videos afloat. The videos themselves, aren't bad, but they really aren't particularly special. Rowans line,s and choice of lines are what makes those videos. There are a few moving shots and stuff as opposed to just static shots and fish eye, but it doesn't exactly break the mold. On the subject of BMX videos I just watched those videos people have linked too, and whilst quite nice I stand by my point that they are very formulaic, just as trials videos are. They all have that seem tone and feel. Its different to a trials video, and IMO nicer, but it doesn't stop it feeling repetitive and un-imaginative after a while.

Its getting that balance correct which is all important. Too much 'pish' as you put it , is dull and slow to watch, too little and there's no atmosphere. Most people make trials videos as you desire, just clips of riding, and it on whole just doesn't work. There's no sense of attachment to the video, nothing that makes it memorable, or enjoyable. A video like that is just to go wow at the riders, and might aswell be a single move, just the single best move out of the video. Watch a film. There's a lot of 'pish', its what mostly defines the tone of the film. Now when you hit a big action scene, theres just pure action, but that will probably last for less than a minute before soem sort of break, to once again to define the tone of the scene. Maybe its a fight scene, and they just stop and look at each other, and think. Clsoe up of the eyes, normally a wide showing how much destruction has been caused during the first part of the fight. These are the shots that make the film, not the person hitting the other with a big stick! I totally agree with you mark. I spose the point I was trying to make is that most people could make a brilliant piece of entertaining trials video, if they took the time to practice and think. But for many this isn't up the list of priorities, the moves are what matters. As as Ben says in the bit I quoted, lots of people in trials just think they want to see move after move. With little care for the cinematography. Now making the little differences will make the change, and I suggest everyone that makes videos make those changes, but for many thats not important. Personally, BMX videos get a bit samey. The current trend in extreme sports videos, of any kind, is to push that nice summers day feel. Pretty golden sun shots. Lots of white diffusion and a warm hue. As a photographer you'll realise there are plenty of other ways to make a picture (or moving pictures) look pretty.

There are quite a few different aspects of videos being discussed here as one, which in all honesty they aren't One thing that bugs me about trials videos/the forum, is the constant use of the word 'editing' to describe every aspect of video production besides the performance of the rider. Editing is a very distinct part of making a video, but it is only a link in the chain. Anyway back to that later. First things first: Making videos, good or bad, takes time and effort. And thats not just time spent filming riders, neither is it just time spent by a computer screen in post production. Time needs to be spent on concept, and direction. Most of the best videos, trials or bmx or otherwise, have a good backbone of direction. Some tell a story of a great ride, some tell the story of a riders progression and dedication while show casing their best moves, some just aim to convey the joy of riding a bike. The linking factor is that they all have a direction. Now to make a greta video this cant just be thought of when you come home with a pile of clips, its gotta be know before you start the video. i.e. If your videos all about a joy of riding your going to worry more about catching that nice sunset, and the riders all enjoying them selves, where as if its mostly about show casing a rider you'll worry more about making sure the scale of the moves are captured. Here lies a big difference between most trials videos and BMX, most BMX videos I've seen have allways had a fun enjoyable element. About riders, about lifestyle, and aimed to be pleasing to sit down of an evening and enjoy as a piece of entertainment. Lots of trials videos are purley about showcasing the abilities of a rider, and focus purely on that 50 whatever inch sidehop, not, for example, on how happy joe bloggs was to make that move. Now obviously its much more complicated than that, but you get the idea. Now making good standard videos takes lots of time, which is why they cost lots of money. A music video for MTV etc will probably take 5 days to plan the shoot, to come up with an idea, to refine the idea. Then 2 days to film. Now when I say days I mean 8/10 hour working days, not a couple of hours a day in the pub having a chat about it. Then it will probably spend 3 days in the edit suite. This to make a 3 minute video. Then a day or so in colour when the brightness, contrast colour balance etc will be adjusted clip by clip to look as good as possible. Thats a lot of hours spent. A really cheap music video will cost about £5k. Now take cheap satellite television. To make a series they will spend upto 6 months planning, then film for 3 days per half hour episode. Then spend 7 working days on each 1/2 hour episode in edit. The cheapest budgest are down to £8/13k per half hour. Most of the look that people describe as being so good about HDV videos comes down to the colour treatment, and depth of field. It has very little to do with the definition. Go look at a BBC wildlife documentary, or similar where cinematography is almost as important as the subject, and see its shot in standard def, and how fantastic it looks. Now its fair to say that effectivly the HDV cameras do make the videos look better, this is mostly down to the fact that the cameras have bigger lens than your standard DV cam, and so can get more light in, use larger apertures/larger sensors, meaning more DoF, and have onboard colour correction soft wear. You take a DV camera like the large Sony VX2000 that has a large diameter lens and manual aperture control etc, and you will get just as good a picture, once compressed for the internet, as out of the Sony Z1 semi pro HDV camera. Now if people spent this much time, forget the costs, on their trials videos then they would all look much better I'm sure. But most people just don't have the time, or desire to go into it that deeply. This is looking at it all from a professional level. The main issue as far as I can see, is that BMX videos are shot to entertain, and often with a view to look pretty too. Most trials videos are shot to show off the riders latest moves. People just pick up a camcorder and a ride and film their friends. If you film on a grey morning its never going to look as nice as on a lovely summers evening, but will you make that line again on that summers evening? thats your call to make. If you stop and think before you film, the results will speak for them selves. As others have said I think constructive criticism is very important. Look at the photography thread. You you read it from start to end you can see the progression of people as photographers. This is mostly down to people saying 'thats nice ,but try this' not ' you suck', or 'wow excellent' at something mediocre. For example I had a long discussion with Ben Rowlands about his latest Porter vid when it was posted, good and bad points were raised, and I think we both went away having a little something else to think about next time either of us make a bike video. I think I've missed half the point I was going to make in this OBM style essay but I hope people understand what I'm getting at.

Thanks again for the nice comments. Jonny, the clam shell is kinda like a camcorder with out the camera, lol. It is battery powered takes mini dv tapes and has a small monitor it has various inputs, the one I was using has s video, component and composite, and it allows you to record a 'live' video signal onto a dv tape. I've attached a picture of the sortta thing I mean though the ones i was using were a little more battered and old than the one in the pic! It worked well but in the end with batteries and all ended up quite heavy. The picture quality of a camera like that is much better than lots of these small bullet cams that you get. At work we've used them for lots of in-car shots and shots from wings of planes and helicopters, and the quality is good enough for broadcast. I'm working for i2i television (www.i2i.tv) who are a small to mid sized independent production company who mostly do leisure television for channels like discovery real time/home and leisure. I was very luck to be able to blag whatever I want of the equipment thats hanging about and use the edit suits to help make videos nowadays.

Cheers for the comments guys. I borrowed all the camera gear from work, was nice to have things like proper fluid head tripod and all to work with. We ended up using a Sony Z1 along with 2 minicams recording onto mini dv clamshell recorders.

Heres a short video I've been working on, on and off, since the autumn. Its Tim Stedman and Matt Burrows riding Clee Hill. There's not too much riding dues to us getting raining off basically and then struggling to find another time to film but its still watchable I think. Trials Tube Link Its much better to download it, its 27mbs and the quality is sooo much better than trials tube. I dont think it liked my codecs, its a .mov so you will need quicktime. Enjoy (hopefully!)

Title says it all really. I've uploaded all my old videos right back to the first one I ever made. I thought I'd post incase anyone was feeling nostalgic. Link to youtube

Fresh start..... Maybe even some riding soon!

We'll have to go climb sometime Mr Haydon. I've still kept up with the climbing, thuogh shockingly I've been out on the bike once or twice recelty meaning I havent got out to as much real rock as I'd like. Lead f. 6b at a crag near Llangollen over the weekend which I was pleased with, as I've neglected leading for a while and have been spending all my time bouldering. Wanna be leading f. 7a outdoors by start of next summer.

Looking good mike! Cool video to watch , really good atmosphere. After watching it I wanna ride, havent felt like that for months

haha yeh. I might even go out saturday as rock will probably be too wet to climb after fridays predicted downpour!

Just thuoght I'd post a few of the clips I had filmed for Steve-A6, that probably will never happen. I'm not riding much at all due to job/climbing. I posted it for rich_87 in the pic pics thread but just thuoght I'd put it up here too. Eengoedidee link

There you go Rich, a very rough selection of clips that were gonna be in the video that never got finished: eengoedidee.nl

1. Sam Jones 2. Bigman 3. Trials Commentator 4. Ash-kennard 5. Ghetto Rider 6. fugigas 7. monkeyseemonkeydo 8. Scopse 9. Quakers 10. Davenorfolk 11. Davetrials 12. Mission_Reefer_Rider 13. TeamWarRider 14. Derf 15. dan_cpu 16. Chris Abbey 17. Mike Crowther 18. Adam bessell 19. Danny Kearns 20. Chris Walford 21. john shrewsbury 22. riley 23. Pedrosa J 24. Lushey (NMC) 25. Ben Jones 26. Nick Manning + gf 27. Matt Burrows 28. Sam "Samwell" Hewitt 29. Joe Elding 30. Mark Westlake 31. Tom Chilvers 32. Tim Arnold 33. T-limburn 34. Sheringham_trials 35. Ross Gardner 36. Martin Grainger 37. Joe White 38. Oli Lewis 39. gr8grumble 40. tim h 41. tomj (nmc) 42. Michael Singleton 43. Prawny Baby 44. Prawny Babys Baby 45. Paul Oliver 46. George Seamons 47. Jonny Jones 48. Dan Jones 49. mowgli 50. adamgriffin3-if iv got my BB by then lol 51. James Porter 52. Jack Harmer (harmertrials) 53. Callum stickland (uniboy) 54. titty boy 56. lil marc 56.5-ben buckett 57.new bike 58. Phil Williams 59. mike carlin (sexymike) 60. Cj lang 61. Joe Baxter 62. Joe Rothwell 63. Simon 64. Brendan 65. Adrian Jordan ~ hes bikeless though 66. Manuel 67. Dan O'Shea 68. Rich Jones 69. Josh Joyce 70. Andrew Chai 71. Ben Cox 72. Dave85 73. Boumsong 74. EchoOz 75. ZooPhython! 76. Clownbike - aka Neil Chana 77. Stevyn - aka Stevyn 78. Stephen Atterbury (maybe but working on it lift wise.) 79. Joe Dickinson (maybe also depending on if he can get the car for saturday, see above!)

Look up www.400greybike.co.uk Its a site dedicatec to the 400cc jap imports and there will be information on there for you. Its been in valuable for my VFR. Probs should have asked this in the motorbike pic thread really as its kinda turned inot a general bikes thread.