modifier

Well actually I meant an appropriately scaled rim brake for motorcycles rather than a disc brake. There was the old argument that was around when bike discs were emerging that a rim brake is just a big disc brake, which is true, but other problems arise with that scenario that have been brought up like gripping surface (the rim) having to be clean, dry, scuffed and true, and pad material. I remember in the old days always having to mess with rim brakes to keep them adjusted and as quiet as possible which was usually impossible. Maybe pad material has been improved and they are easier to tune now. I also didn't mean to imply that I thought bb7s were worse than rim brakes. I said that bb7s and rim brakes in my experience were inferior to hydraulic brakes that I have used. On the other hand I have an older Cannondale with (old technology) Coda hydraulic brakes that are just shy of worthless. Noisier than any brakes I have ever used and almost no stopping power so I'm going to switch those out with my set of bb7s which I'm sure will be better and it's just a commuter bike anyhow. So I guess not all hydraulics are good; I've just had good luck with all the others. And apparently 20 years of bad luck with rim brakes. Which brings up another possibility. I haven't tried very many different manufacture's disc brakes. My first 2 disc sets were first generation Hayes which worked better than rim brakes but were a bit problematic at times when they got old. Then I switched to Shimano and and have always used either XTRs or Saints ever since, which are both their top of the line brakes, so maybe there are a lot of there hydraulic brakes out there that don't work very well and I haven't experienced them. Oh yeah and one set of Avid Ultimate Carbons that work great from a couple of years ago that replaced the bb7s. I've heard that Codes work well too. Then once again perhaps really hard core trials ridding does introduce effects that I can't recreate with other types of riding making rim brakes work better for that application.

I'm sure you guys have years more experience with trials. It just isn't very popular in the US and I also haven't personally concentrated on it. But I do have a lot of bicycle experience and to me brakes are brakes and have one function, but perhaps trials braking is different. I have been riding off road for 38 years and built up my first trials bike when I was 12 in 1972 then started racing gas MX in 74. I began riding mountain bikes in 1981 and have been ever since. I've designed an built my own bicycle components as well over the years and most things I've experimented with have become industry standard years down the road. I've worked as a bike mechanic and have built many wheel sets. I was never very good at hopping around on a bicycle so I can't actually speak to what wheel flex feels like when hopping on the back tire and how it differs with disc brakes because I can't do it. So I grant you that perhaps it's a whole different world and if I could perform at that level I might agree with you. My Saint brakes easily lock up completely as far as I can tell and when I ran BB7s they did not have close to the same gripping strength. I had the same experience with rim brakes for many years. But then I wasn't using them with 20" wheels. So, again, maybe that makes it all different. I believe in mechanical technological advancements particularly with bicycles so when people talk about how older technology is better it's hard for me to keep quiet sometimes. I guess I should not voice my opinion unless it is in line with the collective or expect to get flamed. I've been thinking lately that I might build up a 26" trials bike since they have gotten so specialized and functional so if I do maybe I'll run hydraulic rim brakes on the rear and a disc on the front to see how well they work. I'm not a trained engineer btw.

I have to admit that I haven't used non disc brakes for a long time, except on some of my old bikes that almost never get ridden, but before discs came around I of course tried everything to get the best braking I could short of textured rims that some trials riders use. My many years of experience have showed me that rim brakes will stop you but not very well compared to modern hydraulic disc brakes. My newest bike has the 2011 Shimano Saint brakes and they are amazing both in power and modulation. I run a 203 in the front and a 180 in the rear. There was another thread where someone was asking for a recommendation for dis brakes and almost everyone said that they thought the Avid BB7 brakes were the best by far. Well perhaps this is why people don't like disc brakes. Once again these brakes work but not nearly as well as any hydraulic brake I have every run, even the first generation Hays brakes were better. I think everyone is afraid of brake fluid because they never work on their cars anymore. It's the same thing, just a little more touchy. Yeah it can be a bit of a pain to get them properly bled the first time but usually once they are set up that is it. You can ride for years without having to do anything other than switch out pads, which is a lot easier and less frequent than switching out rim brake pads. If they say less maintenance is their argument I say sorry but rim brakes take far more maintenance than any discs I have ever run. Plus there is the whole rim has to be true and not bent and dry thing for rim brakes to work well. These things have no effect on discs. As far as spoke flex... I think that is like the rigid frame mountain bikers harping on about how they are loosing so much energy with their frame flexing 2mm while climbing. Sounds good. But I don't think so. They are just buying into some vague notion of how things work from hearsay that doesn't have much to do with real world results. If the wheel is built right it won't flex much. The tire will likely flex a lot more. Do you think riding solid rubber tires would help you get through sections? Same difference. Plus even it it does flex a bit it's not going to effect your riding. It might give you a little spring to launch better or a little cushion on a landing. If the wheel is built poorly or has loose or missing spokes it will flex more of course. If rim brakes were better motorcycle trials riders would demand manufacturers engineer rim brakes for their motorcycles. I haven't seen any of that. The one argument for rim brakes I can see is on 20" wheel bikes where their axles are low to the ground so disc brakes might get damaged. Also rim brakes and mechanical discs are cheaper so if money is an issue then better to ride mechanical than not ride. In the end I'm sure modern rim brakes work fine and if that is what you like run them. I'm just saying they don't work better and aren't easier to maintain.

That was actually the rim I was going to use until I started looking at the Atomz. I like the offset spoke holes and the eyelets as I said. The cutouts look pretty cool too. One might think that since the weight is pretty close for both rims (Atomz 593g Trialtech 632g) and the Atomz has more material cut out and has eyelets (50g) that the trial tech might be a stronger/stiffer rim. But then the offset holes and eyelets might even it out. It's a hard call and I'm sure either would be serviceable.

Thanks for the input but 2 thing...One is that I'm going to use a Maverick fork and the tire won't fit with at wider rim. The second thing is that I already have a Larry on a 46 mm (1050g) rim and it looks pretty good. The profile is a lot more like a normal mountain bike tire rather than a snow/sand tire and I'm not going for super high flotation. There is one guy running Larrys on a 47mm rim and he says it works fine. I'm set on 47mm just looking for feedback on rim selection.

Hi Adam, Yes I'm the one who emailed you yesterday. And yes I am going to run 3.7" tires on these rims and use the bike for rough cross country and some trials. So I have a lot of tire protection of the rims but will be hitting things at speed at times. I have never been good at hoping around on a bike so when I ride trials it's doesn't involve gaps of more than a couple of feet of ledges more than 3 feet. So basically rolling trials rather than hopping. But it's still fun and helps me clean the harder trials and I can take some pretty hard lines. I'm building these up on a 170mm rear hub and a 110mm front hub if that makes any difference. So what's this about the odd angles on the Atomz? I kind of like the idea of eyelets. Also I'm using disc brakes so flat sides is not important unless it has a strength advantage.

Hi, I just joined because I'm going to order some 26" rims tomorrow from TartyBikes, or as soon as I get enough feedback, and I wanted opinions from some people who have tried them. I hope enough people read this section or I'll have to repost when I'm accepted. What is important to me is weight. Close to 600g is good. Width 46 to 48mm. Strength, of course, and that they look cool....of course. The 4 rims I have narrowed it down to are as follows. -Atomz Un Elitis -Rockman Single Wall -Onza Pro Diamond -Viz Square Hole They all look pretty good in all respects. The Viz is the lightest by a bit and the Atomz has eyelets which might be a good thing for truing and strength. These are all single wall which I guess I need if they are going to be light. The offset of the spokes is 11mm on all but the Rockman which is 9mm. I'm thinking a little wider might make it stronger. Shorter spokes and pulling from the stronger part of the rim. Also what is going on with trials tires and tubeless? Are people doing it? If so how do they seal up drilled/cut rims? Thanks.