Maxx

In this case this is the frame which is responsable of the noise not the pads ?

If the sound comes only from pad wobble (or almost) why a booster reduce sound ? Booster doesn't reduce pad wobble so ... ? Sound also change with pads compounds. Despite your explication I can't still understand how plastic pads can produce any sounds on aluminium rims. Canardweb can you explain your point of view ?

Hi, I have some questions about actual Echo brakes : Have they still leaking problems as they had previously? If yes from where the leaks come? How is the quality of the piston compared to Magura piston (lever)? Does Echo still make the SL version? Tartybikes doesn't sell it any more... And the last one: how are Echo levers in terms of feeling (spongy, ... ) compared to HS33? I know it's alot of questions

But you'll need to rebleed them (volume increase)

Shame they don't make some anymore ... as a "trial version", even if it would lead to higher prices for the consumer, I'm sure trials riders would buy it. And have you guys any ideas until when we can buy brand new lever ? 1 year ? 2 years ? Or I must stock some from now ?

Since the new 2011 hs33 came out, 2005 magura levers are still available in a lot of online shop, and these shops are able to procure new each time they are out of stock. So I was wondering if Magura still manufactured 2005 levers in small quantities ? (I know they officially stops, but is this real ?)

It was my thought too : how a pad (considering it's just 'plastic') can produce a sound like this ? The sound is a 'metallic vibration', isn't it ? My theory was it's just the vibration of the pads which is repercuted on the clamps/cylinder/frame. This can explain why hard pads are louder (because they transfer better the vibration).

Hi, The other day I was wondering, what makes a hs33 or others rim brakes loud ? The sound make me to think it's a kind of vibration, but I don't know what parts of the bike ? Rim ? pads ? slave cylinder ? brake clamps ? bolts ? frame ? And I've heard that without booster we get more bite, why ? Shouldn't it be the contrary ?

Yes more pressure because less surface, but also less friction because of less surface, it's why I ask if there is a notable difference

Have you noticed a real difference with the angled rear pads (less surface) ?

Here some pictures I've just made. But they are not good quality (it's the night here), and they do not represent the 'standard bike' as it is sold (I put some better parts on it, and remove some good parts reserved for my comp bike ...) Maybe I will create a new post with better pics tomorrow or in the week And yes I know, you guys are going to say my bar is .... But I LIKE it, and believe me or not, it improves my riding on some things (stem is 130*30, not 150*30)

I have one Sky V3 stock, BB is like sky V2 ... I don't have measure bb's height but it rides the same

Slave pistons (2 of magura and 2 of disc caliper) need to be in contact with rim/disc to brake : more travel for the slave piston = more travel for the master piston (at the lever) = more travel for the lever. A bigger piston at the lever would be ok for a good lever's travel, but you will have less power ... Maybe disc pads would touch the disc before hs33 pads touch the rim, but it doesn't matter, when you brake you just pull the lever to the bite contact (and so all pads touch rim/disc at this point) But this is only theory.

I agree. Pressure will be the same in all the hydraulic system so power in both cylinder / caliper will be the same as if they were alone, but you will get a spongier lever with a long travel.

Never tried to bath bleed a new hs33. But why wouldn't it work ? The new lever has a bleed port also (otherwise how could we bleed the brake ?) ...

HS11 has 4 finger blade. Compare comparable things. And pistons are the same as old ones. I have never tried Echo brakes/levers, so I can't compare. And what have have you all with new system of bleed ? You just turn the lever so it points up, and put a syringe in the bleed port ! It's the only difference.

2011 with 2 finger lever blade ... (and a good bleed, I don't know why but magura's bleeds give a bad feeling). I agree that 4 fingers blades are too spongy, but they also give you a good brake, even if your grind is worn and pads almost dead

Have you measured the flex of the lever ? I have (4 finger blade), and it is insignificant compared to the flex caused by frame flex. You can easily see that lever is "spongy" while the body doesn't move (or just a little bit). I read lots of reviews of guys saying that it is - or not - better than 2005 hs33, more spongy, ... , so I tried something : rear brake : 2011 HS33 2 finger lever blade (coolant liquid bleed) front brake : 2005 Hs33 4 finger lever blade (coolant liquid bleed) (because their leverage ratio a pretty much the same, so about the same power for the same force in your finger) result : pretty much the same feeling, same "bite point". I think the only negative things is that they leak easily because the piston "crashes" the body. They are easier to bleed than old magura ... You don't do it right I think. (I personnaly like both 2005 and 2011 HS33 - 4 or 2 fingers - they all have advantages/disadvantages)

The master cylinder on 2011 hs33/11 doesn't flex alot itself (just a very little). Brake very hard, and watch the master cylinder movement : relative to the lever it barely moves (if you tightened the clamp bolts correctly). Now look at how the frame flexes ! (even if it's stiff). So yes the master cylinder may move a little bit more than 2005 hs33, BUT it's not the source of a lot of flexing. It's mainly the power which cause "spongy" lever (frame flex more important than master cylinder flex and by far). And at equal braking force (on the rim) : with a longer lever blade you need less force than a shorter lever blade, but even considering this, the longer lever will provide more "flex". I have had 5 new hs33 (2011) which were leaked (2 front, 3 rear), and as I said every time it leaks, it is at the master cylinder where there are scratches inside (I think two o-rings must be a good idea). The longest time a brake lasted me is 5 months (for the 2011 hs33, not 2005), but of course it depends how you ride, how often, your level, places also maybe, ....... Ps: sorry english is not my native language

Exactly the same. And every time I inspect the master cylinder after a leak : it's damaged (sort of scratches) ! I think it's the piston itself that does this, I don't see any other explanation (plastic rubbing against plastic wich cause this)

How did you put trialtech pads in those backings (removing and assembling ?) ?

Ok I didn't know that (although I've run antifreeze for the last 4 years in different hs33, I sometimes put a drop of oil). And does antifreeze contain water (which apparently makes pistons bigger and problems of non-return levers) ? Because like I said I never have any problems with antifreeze but since I tried windshield washer fluid, I have some problems.

Yes but antifreeze doesn't lubrificate seals, no ?

The use of shimano oil in hs33 may be good ? Lubrification and little bit more responsive lever.

That's it. If you want something, you can have it. But you have to be ready to fight.