yeah i ahve been having a nose about, and i like the looks of the bikes on echo's sight, but they look ver very expensive, the idea of buying a cheap one, and getting better parts slowly appealed to me, cus it means that i can get the bike that i want, it worked well with my bmx,a nd i now have a bike that is completely personal, so i will do that with the trials too thanks for all the help guys happy riding