Nope. I've realised that for a long time now but in my opinion, the new Onza's are one of the strongest frames going. You can't get heavy, strong frames anymore. Even Deng has gone liteweight. For example, take a look on Tarty, click on 20" frames. There isn't a single frame that strong, heavy and meant for TGS. Company's just don't make it anymore. The GU ST is the only frame above 2kg I think on Tarty and it's disc only anyway and not alot of TGS riders are double disc. So basically my point is, the new Onza's such as the Ice is probably the strongest frame going right now for TGS. And i'm only talking about what Tarty have here. Basically the same as what I said. Thank you. That's exactly right.