monkeyseemonkeydo

They were basically two 'marks' of the frame: Mark 1 was white, mark 2 had a few tweaks and was red.

Nah, the Kamel's have a longer wheelbase and higher BB. They are a compy frame though so if you aren't very smooth or use your bash a lot then they won't last long... Having said that, Don't forget the 220 Kamel. I had my 221Pr for two years in which I used it in comps, on the street and generally abused it and it's still going strong with a second owner now. Seems like the top of the ranges are built silly light and so not as strong and the next one down (Pr or now the 220) can take a beating.

The main thing when you're doing that after backwheeling something is making sure you land the up in a nice balanced backhop. That usually means keeping your weight a little bit further back than normal to counterbalance the momentum of the front wheel wanting to drop.

Yeah, that'd be my choice.

Because it's silent it makes everything seem silky smooth. Also makes lots of sense if you ride in comps are in the wet etc. It'll feel weird to start with but once you learn to trust it and get the brake set up right dual disc rocks.

Because discs are full of win. Especially on 20".

Pretty much. You'd think they'd have made a bigger deal of it and maybe actually had footage if he'd actually lost it on the bend and ended up in a ditch so I'm guessing it was intentional/put there.

He's a complete beast on it and appears even smoother than on his 320 because of the dual discs!

Fair enough. In other news... 1) When are we going to see a production version of the 18" bike Seddon's currently ripping everything up on?! And when is he going to make a video of him doing just that? and 2) Joe mentioned a possible Zoot replacement... any more info?

As an aside, as another quick example, take Univega: Now that's their first trials frame (that I'm aware of) and comes from a company which tends to be pretty budget I think. Now that also looks a hell of a lot better than the build in the first post of this thread which says to me it was probably put together by a rider and a bit of consideration was put in before releasing it at a show and publishing pictures. Colour scheme: pretty funky, works with the frame shape and without the name could've bee nmistaken for a Koxx, Atomz or similar top line jobby. Components: fairly generic but all look fairly good on the bike and the red rims set it off. Little touches...

Fair enough, and in that case it makes it even more important to make sure what you put out there will appeal to the largest proportion of riders so you can get the biggest slice of the available pie. Compared to the likes of Koxx you produce very good value, high performance frames but if you just spent a little more time considering the details (if you've read my editted post above about Inspired) I think you could do even better and push your frames even further up the 'top selling frames' lists. That doesn't even necessarily just mean the frame colours either. The pictures at the start of this thread make the bike look cheap and tacky. Pretty much any rider can tell you that and it comes down to silly things like bar and stem choice. Those are the sorts of things that you shouldn't be exposing your products to. Put a nice build on it and this entire thread wouldn't have happened!

But in quantities, what does the number one 20" trials frame sell? Are we talking 100, 500 worldwide?

Oh Joe, I couldn't possibly. I've already suggested possibilities, as have quite a few others. Jewish Racing Gold/Bronze wasn't on the list . It does surprise me that you only do batches of 50- is it not cheaper to go for something like 500 or so to ship world wide? Seems like a very small run but I guess if the price difference isn't much then fair do's. On another note, look at Inspired (I'm not biased at all...). Dave had a really good product (which Onza helped to get to the final stage). However he was very careful about colour choices, starting simple with black and white, before doing some consumer research (asking riders) about what other colours people would like to see resulting in the baby blue, brown and british racing green. Now in his defense he also has a good eye for aesthetics to start with but everything he's done has been really well received. Also the graphics and Inspired logo's are very carefully considered and compliment the frame's lines and simplicity well and by supplying the stickers seperately allows the riders to do precissely what they want with their frame. It's this care and consideration which seems to be lacking with the Onza line. Talking of Joe Seddon, rode with him yesterday and what he's done with his frame (raceline yellow highlighting the 'swoosh' of the downtube with raw) looks 100x better than the production version. It just seems like the colour and graphics are left purely to one person (Joe?) with no consultancy with anyone else.

Did he really crash the Beemer into the ditch?

I don't really know what Joe's involvment has been but at the end of the day Onza exist to sell trials bikes and frames. As said before, they could make the bestest frames in the world but if they aren't liked by the publlic (for whatever reason) then the whole things becomes pointless and that becomes even more silly if that reason is poor colour/graphics choice. The entire thing boils down to (not) learning from mistakes and completely ignoring the potential customers opinions. As said before I honestly want Onza to be very successful but they continue to make bad decisions.

I'm gonna take a real stab in the dark here and say... No, what the hell are you talking about?

Don't you believe it...

I wouldn't go as far as that... It's a vaguely accepted sarcastic term for a pale gold car, started by Jeremy Clarkson I think.

f**k YEAH!!

Fuuuuuck... If the numbers on Sheamus.co.uk are anything near accurate RATM had over half a million sales. Joe had around 450,000. Number 3? 61,000!! Two horse race anyone?!!

I refuse to believe that no one else in the business (apart from the official charts co or whoever) know the chart positions until Radio 1 announce them... it must've been passed around on bits of paper and emails on the inside since this morning surely. Reeeeaaalllly hope RATM get it... Also good to see Shelter getting over £65,000 too.

Looks so good with the seat up there. Deng would be proud.

Pretty old school riding. Have seen more impressive flowy stuff from modern flatlanders...