monkeyseemonkeydo

I don't think so. 'Historically altered/inaccurate' doesn't quite cover it for me when you're considering things like the creation of the Universe, man, the burning bush, resurrection, parting of seas, floods and arks, water to wine, feeding 5000 people on a stick of chewing gum etc. As said before there may have been a guy called Bejus who stood up against the powers that be back in the day but everything else, I would guess, is most likely entirely made up. We're back to the 99% fiction and if that's all fiction why would Bejus being the 'son of God (kinda)' not be just another of those fictional factors made up to turn a normal dude, lets call him Brian (or Bejus), into a false idol. Once again, if you use logic and reasoning you'd come to the conclusion that the whole thing is pretty laughable. But then if you've got faith then it's ok because you can just ignore logic and reasoning can't you...

No, I'm saying that logic and reason cannot easily be applied to the stories in the Bible, beyond reasoning that the whole thing is a series of stories not meant to be taken literally leading to the question 'if the stories are not literaly true, why would you believe in the existence of God or an afterlife?'. A logical, reasonable person would look at the facts and evidence and come to the conclusion that it's a very nice story but completely unbelievable. Removing that you're only left with faith which ignores logic and reason leaving only, well, faith itself. Don't know if that makes any more sense than my last post but there you go .

I take that and raise you; 'I've broken my pedal axles and would like to know if it's possible to replace them with Titanium axles'. Either way, tuleda, what type of pedals do you have? Wellgo, DMR, VP...?

Not really . In my mind IF you believe in a Christian based God THEN you have accepted the teachings and story of the Bible and have therefore ignored the principle of logic and reasoning... By definition your beliefs cannot change without moving away from believing in a Christian God and accepting more logical, reasonable beliefs. That's not meant to be a sarcastic response to your post by the way, just using your post as a base to put my version of events across.

You're absolutely right. Satan would ride an Inspired. To beigemaster- you say you believe we were created by God... do you mean that in a Christian sense or in the sense of a 'first cause'?

It's ok, I don't mind... :'(

It would be nice... in a way. However, to have a purpose we would then simply be puppets playing out some charade for the designer of that purpose. With regards what we are, I'll leave you with a quote from the master philosopher Agentius Smithus; "Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet." Amen brother.

The thing is I've already been through this in Dave's 'Hardcore Christian' thread where it was discussed to death and Joe told us of the 'miracles' he had witnessed which, from what I remember, were quite clearly fake and set up by the Christian camp he was at to aid in the 'brain washing'... I know what you're saying and as an engineer and scientist I tend not to deal with highly structured debates when I reply (I try to deal in facts and real evidence which, in the case of the Bible, there ain't much) but I can see how that can be read by those of you who do, yourself and Bejus being the obvious two who spring to mind. So yeah, I think we've covered a lot of the evidence and open-mindedness which has to exist in science in support of the theory of Evolution, the Big Bang theory and everything else in past topics and I really can't be bothered to retype it all or drag it back up for one lost-cause Christian. Likewise in that other thread it was fairly well shown that there is pretty much zero evidence for anything in the Bible being even remotely likely, except for maybe the existence of a dude called Bejus (Brian?) who may have existed and inadvertently stood up for his people. It all comes bac kto FeS and winged giraffes if I remember correctly... Oh yeah, and in other news LOLZ.

Do you work for them Ali?!

But a lot of those things were in the background (so wouldn't be in focus) but the 3Dness meant that the difference between the two pictures was way too big so your eyes still see the two separate images rather than the one 3D image. Seems like they should've sorted those sorts of things before release. Although saying that, if you were at the back maybe your eyes would've been able to focus properly so it may well be a function of your position in the theatre...

Finally got round to watching this (in 3D). Effects are incredible. Can't even begin to imagine how they went about creating that. First time I've seen a 3D film and I have to say I was rather underwhelmed. Might've been because we were right down the front corner so at a funny angle to the screen but the 3D worked for the most parts but some areas were just blurry and made me start to go cross eyed! I've now got a bit of a headache and don't think I'll be bothering with 3D again. Storyline was good, didn't seem to drag on but... unobtainium? UNOBTAINIUM?! For christs sake. That just annoyed me! Overall, visually incredible, well thought out and interesting storyline. Not the best film ever for sure but still a landmark film I'd say. But unobtainium?! Come on...

I'm scared.

I'm deeply offended. Exoskeletons ftw.

I'm guessing you mean the OTN topic where I went off on one about Americans (funnily enough considering the title of this topic!) and again, you're right, I can be rather outspoken and have quite strong opinions... it's comes down to me seeing things in black and white with not much room for grey areas I think.

I thought someone would pick up on something like that. The thing is that I'm open to suggestions and have considered the possibility of a god and afterlife and whatever else but have thought about it reasonably and logically and decided that it's all rubbish. Not the underlying message of religion of course but the need for a beardy dude who can heal the sick and the existence of heaven as a place to go when you die. Basically, I've been through the open minded stage, realised there's nothing in it and am now open to suggestions but consider it incredibly unlikely so don't tend to entertain the idea for long any more. Joe on the other hand seems to have simply been brought up being told exactly what to think, these beliefs being backed up by rather questionable miraculous healings in church through prayer and incredible stories from Christian camps. He's shown over and again his lack of knowledge on the evolutionary theory and so is happy to carry on believing what he's been told to believe for years. I know what you're getting at but I honestly believe he's the one whose completely ignorant to the possibilities that are out there. I understand the basis of his beliefs and am willing consider and ultimately dismiss them whereas he has little understanding of where I'm coming from yet freely dismisses it without even considering the possibility. I know what I mean...

Not high res here but would be able to get them if needed: Photo by Chris Ratcliff Photo by Dan Campbell Photo by Dan Campbell Photo by Dan Campbell Photo by Andy Green Photo by Andy Green Photo by Andy Green Photo by Andy Green Photo by Andy Green Photo by Andy Green Photo by Andy Green Photo by Andy Green Photo by Andy Green

Not an idiot, just naive, close-minded (in your own, Christian way) and undereducated in scientific theories. Well I'm really glad one person in the World knows what's going to happen in the end because everyone else can only speculate. The Pope, Archbishop and I included...

It's very similar to knocking your head against a brick wall...

, however you want to think about it .

Your brain is a very clever thing but it's the old nature/nurture thing. Between the general personality traits you can inherit from your parents (nature- think of how you can gauge a dogs likely temperament from its parents and breeding) and the rest comes down to nurture- what you are exposed to as you grow up, the way you are treated by those around you etc. Having a 'soul' adds the spiritual element to it which is just another way of thinking about your personality and how your presence has impacted and affected those around you.

You're bloody right I haven't. Because any mass hysteria fueled sermon like that is 100% false with 'stooges' placed to make the naive followers like yourself see what they want you to see. What's more worrying is that it sounds like your entire family must be conspiring against you to make sure you're well and truly brainwashed to the way of the lord. I think the documentary you watched was some bullshit made by Christians to help in the brain washing again. If that's the extent of your knowledge of science and evolution I'm not surprised you're so confused and naive. Get a grip, man. It really, really, really doesn't. If it did, do you think anyone in the World would not believe in God? There would be no need for doctors or hospitals because everyone would be a complete believer in God and just nip down the church when they found out they had cancer. The only place these things happen are in completely over the top/cult sermons not dissimilar to what's in the video in the very first post. You need to open your eyes if you honestly believe what you think you're seeing during these 'healings'. I've seen enough footage of those 'miracles' and 'healings' to know it's absolute bullshit. I really hope you never get struck down with a serious illness because your trust in the Lord ain't gonna cut it.

That's good to know. Utter tosh of course but good to know. I quite honestly have no real response for that because it is firstly completely impossible and stupid but the fact you honestly believe it makes it really worrying... Do you not find it even slightly odd that no one else in the entire World has ever seen a miracle (whether they're true believers in God or no) yet you've personally witnessed plenty? There's something reeally wrong there.