right thats it ali. lets take this outside....................if im not there in five minutes, start without me. my serious bit is that actually i dont like the feel of v's not sure why. and i cant trust one at all. i dont suffer from arm pump so much as i set my maguras up with lots of pull! personal preference and all that i suppose eh . anyway ali, ur a natty boy, sure u have arm pump alot more than i ever will but i just feel maguras are the way forward. have been for a long time. most the young een's just get v's cos you pros have them and they think its way forward MAGURA > water bleed > coustsinks > cnc backings > standard hosing = no problem