Ice

[Chicky]

Okay i'm a rocker. I don't have the first f**king clue about cars or in car entertainment but i want to learn.

I'm looking to buy myself some speakers and shit for when i get my car, i understand that i need a headunit to be able to run anything decent.

Now a mates selling some 350watt ministry of sound 6x9's for about 20 quid, is it worth buying these? 350watt would be one hell of a beefy guitar amp but is it any good for a car? And what sort of head unit would i need?

Also would i be able to get away with just buying the 6x9's and a headunit and nothing else. Would it be loud? (i'm talking about playing Trivium as load as possible around town)

Also, how hard is it to fit the speakers? Is it just some simple wiring?

cheers guys, any help is apreciated.

[Caleb]

Do you wnat a proper system or just the 6X 9's?

them minstry of sound ones will probably be shite imo

350 watt will be their maxx output and most likely they will have a 40 w rms.

rms is basically the true power of the speakers.

bare in mind i dont know too much, but i reckon i know enough.

Also if you want to power your speakers i would suggest an amp, as the head unit acts as an amp, but a very small one that cant control too much.

Now im pretty sure an amp in guitar terms is pretty much similar to a sub in car terms . . .

im going to be running a pair of vibe qb 69's. inthe back

a vibe 12"pulse intergrated sub and amp

vibe fli door speakers.

im still on the look out to find a decent 600w 4 channel amp to power the door speakers and 6X9's too.

[Chicky]

I'm not bothered about getting an amp or subs.

would i be able to run some 250watt speakers in the front of one make and some ministry of sound 6x9's in the back off of a say sony head unit?

Sorry for the annoying questions

[Bendee]

any person who knows anything about ice will tell you to sack the 6x9s off there gash truely gash, speakers are allways meant to be infront of you its the same with the cinema and when your at home listening to music forget about them, they try to do jobs off all the speakers and subs but fail miserably at it all.

if you want a decent set up get a decent set off components (not coaxles) and amp them up and if you facny more bass add a sub if you can afford it.

when looking at buying the stuff generally if you stay away from the household names sony for example dont even consider buying that shit you should get a decent set up.

if you are wanting music real load then a sub components and a couple of amps would be your best bet but if you cant afford all that then a amp components and decent headunit will sufice.

[nmt_oli]

A head unit and those 6x9s will work- but it wont be loud and it wont sound good.

heres a little introduction, to help newbies like you out:

1) The Brands:

as has been said- don't just go by brand, sony have jumped on the ICE bandwagon, but the quality of there in car stuff is nowhere near that of there home entertainment, or that of lesser brands who are specific for car audio.

You can buy some sony speakers that cant take as much power, are worse build quality, and look worse than speakers costing half the price!

Some good brands to look at would be, IMO,

Headunits- alpine, pioneer

Speakers/subs- JBL / Infinity are great for the price

Amps - JBL again are pretty much unbeatable for the price, alpine also make great amps.

2) The Figures:

manufacturers want you to buy there products, so they will make them look as good as possible and say there really good, even if there not.

Any power figure that has a MAX after it is a lie, don't even look at it!

You want to find the RMS (root mean squared) values, these represent the true power output/handling of equipment. you want the RMS output of the Headunit/amp to be as close as possible to the higher end of the RMS range on the speakers, if not above- its better for an amp to be lazy, than to try and be working too hard as this will end up sending clipped signals (ie distortion) through the system, and it will overheat.

Headunits typically put out between 20-30w RMS. If you find a head unit genuinly pushing more than 30W RMS over 4 channels i will be VERY impressed, and also worried as the power wires feeding the headunit will not be big enough!

Don't believe me? most head units have a 15 amp (or less) built in fuse, so at most they can be using 15 amps of current.

Power = Current x Voltage, so lets work this out!

Power = 15A x 13.5V (typical voltage of car when running)

Power = 202.5W

Divide this by 4 channels and you have your magical claimed 50W per channel, however- not all the power used by the unit is outputted to the speakers.

Electrical devices will never be 100% efficient, and a headunit (unlike an amplifier) also has other things to do as well as amplify the signal.

so, when you take into account that only 60% of that, if your lucky, will go to the speakers then you get 30W.

So then, headunits are only really suitable for powering factory speakers (what there designed for) and they will do that much better than the factory stereo as they will produce a cleaner signal. A headunit mated to factory speakers, where the desinger has actually thought about the placement of the speakers can sound really quite good, especially if there factory components.

3)Buying In Stages:

First buy the best headunit you can afford, with at least 2 amplifier outputs, and run it through the factory system. notice the difference.

Next, upgrade the front speakers to good quality components amplified OR if your car is relatively new and has ok speakers already, add a sub.

Now see what you think for a while

After that, do whichever of the two above you didnt do. Notice the difference again.

Now you have a good headunit, good front speakers amplified, and a sub. It should, if correctly set up, sound very good.

Do you really need to do any more? Probably not, however, if you do think about what you want. Not bassy enough? Then add another sub. Not loud enough? Are you amps utilising your speakers properly? If not, upgrade the amps. If they are- start doubling up on things, eg. 2 sets of speakers in the front.

Alot of people learn this the hard way, stick to the guide above. If you do too much at once you wont hear what has changed. until you know what things change what- don't jump straight in.

4) System Set Up:

Ok, it seems a lot of people are coming round and realising slapping 6x9s on the rear shelf is not the best idea- however some people still think its great, mainly because its easy to do and you get better speakers than the factory ones.

If you are going to to it, do it properly. 6x9s in a reinforced shelf (mdf instead of factory papier mache) amped up will provide a lot of base, especially if you box them up.

However, this will draw the soundstage back, especially if nothing has been done to the front speakers.

If you also have amped front components, and turn the treble up on those, and remove the top end from the 6x9s you will have an economical and good sounding system without the need for sub.

Remember, rear speakers are for passengers, not you! You want enjoy your sounds, dont spend money for the sake of you passengers.

Most aftermarket speakers have input power ranges from 5W RMS up to about 100W RMS. Below 5W, the speaker wont do anything- not enough magnetic flux change to move the cone. Above 100W, either the cone will move to far (sound flappy) or the wires in the speakers coil will burn out. Any where inbetween just adjusts the volume.

So, once you have your head unit in, and you start upgrading your speakers remember there power handling range will be higher ( by a fair amount) than the cars factory speakers. this means you wont be able to play music as loud, but the sound quality will be improved as you have better speakers.

This is why we need amplifiers. Don't be scared by amplifiers, the only tricky bit to installing them is running wires through the car.

Hopefully that will answer a lot of questions, if you still have more, give me a shout.

Edited March 31, 2006 by nmt_oli

[haydon_peter]

Save the money.

Learn to drive.

Pass your test.

Then get car audio sorted.

[JTM]

Most of the basics has been covered nicely above, so Ill jus reitterate (sp?)

6x9s are shit, and anyone who tells you different is a ool and has no idea about car audio, and is TRYING to make their system sound shit. It isnt actually the speakers which are THAT bad, its the placement. The parcel shelf is NOT a good place for a set of speakers. If you could use 6x9s in your doors, which some cars can, it would be worth considering a decent set. But usually 99% of the time, some components will be much better.

What car are you planning on putting the shizzle into?

If you like rock, your going to be wanting to put your money into your head unit and front speakers. Rock is much harder to recreate than say dance music. And needs a good set of components to seperate all the instruments properly.

Your first port of call should be a decent head unit. I have a Pioneer DEH P77MP which is a VERY nice head unit and im rather please with it. Subtle looks with no lashig lighs or any of that poo and a very nice sound. I got mine new off ebay for £200 posted, but they often go for about £140 2nd hand. You could do much worse!

Front comps should ideally have the biggest mid driver you can fit in your car (this is the speaker looking part of the components) and will also have a tweeter, which is a small maybe 1in round speaker which plays the high frequencies ie. the voices etc. I have a set of 13cm Infinity reference components and while I would like the next size up (biggest mids I can fit with adapters and no modifying of doors) they are very nice, cost me £100 new but can be had for about £60 2nd hand.

You should Ideally amp these front speakers to get the best from them, and would be amazed at how much better it sounds once amped. And old skool alpine amp can be had on ebay for under £30. I have a 4 channel alpine jobbie which my girlfriend bought me and Ive bridged the 4 channels into 2 channels giving my 75w comps 100w. This is more than enough let me tell you!

All this talk of 350w this and 200w that is usually absolute shit and should be ignored.

As for a sub, I have a old 12in kenwood sub, i mean were talking 12 years old in a proper beasty ported box with a old skool kenwood amp to match. Wouldnt believe how good it sounds to look at it lol. The old stuff is the best!

Also, as with all audio home or car, 2nd hand stuff is just as good as long as its from a reputable source and its cheaper!

[Bonney@X-Street]

This is what you want, tis in my golf and no matter what music you listen to it blows your brains out

Alpine D300 Headunit with kca-420i ipod connection kit

Phoneix Gold Line driver

Alpine v12 Amp running

Alpine 17cm components x2

Alpine v12 Amp bridged to 1ohm stable powering

Alpine type r 12" subwoofer

Edited April 3, 2006 by Bonney@X-Street

[Bendee]

you can do much much much better than alpine, awsoem headunits better than pioneer but theres little in it, if your looking at spending 100 quid like jtm sugested then look at rainbows, dls they are better speakers than the infinitys.

i reckon you would be happy with a decent set of components and a amp, as for subs it really depends on the amount you have to spend R.E make some sexy subs and will sound alot nicer than any alpine sub as from what ive heard you have to work the alpines hard to get anything from them.

i reckon you should get a nice headunit alpine/ pioneer set of components rainbow/dls and a nice amp genisis aint to fancy looking but give a real nice crisp sound.

[nmt_oli]

This is what you want, tis in my golf and no matter what music you listen to it blows your brains out

Alpine D300 Headunit with kca-420i ipod connection kit

Phoneix Gold Line driver

Alpine v12 Amp running

Alpine 17cm components x2

Alpine v12 Amp bridged to 1ohm stable powering

Alpine type r 12" subwoofer

that is one MINT system!

I can't wait to see how my golf turns out, bit of a mismatch of things ove got lying around, but will be a great sounding system for the cash.

MP3 playey- no headunit

Boss equaliser/line driver (half DIN dash mount)

JBL 4 chan amp

mutant 4chan amp

mutant 2chan amp (yes, there cheap, but they work pretty well and i already have them!)

Infinity 13cm and 16.5cm comps (all in front doors, and all off jbl amp)

JBL 4x6s in stock rear locations, just for a bit of rear fill to balance it and for passengers (plus some music off my current HU until i get this all in)

pair of unbranded 17cm Midbass drivers, in custom rear stealth shelf.

10" JBL sub

should be pretty nice, very punchy, nicely balanced if i can set the levels well.

[Bonney@X-Street]

mutant 4chan amp

mutant 2chan amp (yes, there cheap, but they work pretty well and i already have them!)

Mutant arew very much over looked, the people who make mutant make kicker, now mutants amps especially the new mutant xxx range that are being launched sometime soon are quite frankly going to be awesome. mutant were created to embarase people such as alpine, jbl and all the big names because of the amount of amp you were getting for the price. Mutant is great if you are on a budget and want some tunes in the car. But do try and stay away from their subs though

[ARSE!]

This is what you want, tis in my golf and no matter what music you listen to it blows your brains out

Alpine D300 Headunit with kca-420i ipod connection kit

Phoneix Gold Line driver

Alpine v12 Amp running

Alpine 17cm components x2

Alpine v12 Amp bridged to 1ohm stable powering

Alpine type r 12" subwoofer

How much that lot set you back then.

[Luke Williams!]

JBL all the way.

i had jbl 6x9 with a jbl 1000 watt sub (untill it got stolen) hitched up in my ride with some standard door speakers really did the trick for me although mr man is right and 6x9 do tend to try do all the jobs at once if you set them right with the sub the sound quality and the all around music feel is much better i'd rather have music coming from both directions plus its nice for your passengers! roll on the 24th when i get me new sub

i so wish i could grab a pic of my dads system that is what i call evil, 2 15" subs in his boot with 2 12" 2 6x9's in each door and on his partial shelf with another 12" sub on his partial shelf too, he does it all himself too an he's a 46 yr old black guy with a mazda

Edited April 9, 2006 by LukeBrisaRider

[Bonney@X-Street]

How much that lot set you back then.

*cough* alot

[HarshRider]

hello

just want a bit of advice really,

i currently have 2 alpine speakers being these in my door.

and running two kenwood 6x9 speakers in the parcel shelf being these

and a 10"sony xplode sub being powered by a pants splx amp.

all speakers minus sub are running of a old ministry of sound head unit.

now this is all ok considering i bought the hole thing for £50. and its generally ok minus the pants amp. (which i plan to upgrade anyway) however im thinking of ditching the 6x9

but not really sure what would be best to change to.

any advice? also would it be worth amping the door speakers, im not really sure if they could take anymore power then they already are given.

this is all in a ford fiesta mk3 by the way

cheers for any help

[nmt_oli]

You are right, theres prob not a lot of point amping up those front speakers power wise, they are designed as factory replacement with low power ratings, and quite cheaply built.

However, amping them up will allow you to control what frequencies they get, so you could remove the bass from them to prevent distortion.

Amping the front speakers, and getting them set up right, and the amp again set up right and just running the 6x9s off the headunit will sound surprisingly good, and if you set the high pass filter for the fronts to remove the bass you will be surprised what they can do, i have some smaller speakers in the dash of my golf (still havent got round to making pods for components) and have them amped and they go VERY loud with a good soundstage, just lack mid kick.

[HarshRider]

You are right, theres prob not a lot of point amping up those front speakers power wise, they are designed as factory replacement with low power ratings, and quite cheaply built.

However, amping them up will allow you to control what frequencies they get, so you could remove the bass from them to prevent distortion.

Amping the front speakers, and getting them set up right, and the amp again set up right and just running the 6x9s off the headunit will sound surprisingly good, and if you set the high pass filter for the fronts to remove the bass you will be surprised what they can do, i have some smaller speakers in the dash of my golf (still havent got round to making pods for components) and have them amped and they go VERY loud with a good soundstage, just lack mid kick.

would it be worth getting say a 4 channel brideable amp, running the door speakers of 2 channels and briding the other two for my sub?

the only bad thing about 6x9 is being placed in the parcel shelf is as the the sub vibrates it also vibrates the whole shelf including the speakers, cant be doing the speakers wonders.

aw well, i wouldnt know where else to mount speakers in the rear.

oh whats a sound stage :$

and double oh, just realised that those alpine speakers are 4" mine are 5.5 but look the same

Edited August 4, 2006 by HarshRider

[HarshRider]

these are the door speakers i have, (sorry about the confussement)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alpine-5-25-Speakers...1QQcmdZViewItem

still pants though 35w

[nmt_oli]

right, yeah def amp the front speakers then, along with the sub.

instead of using the crappy parcel shelf, make one out of MDF to make the rear speakers more secure, and box the speakers of to isolate them from the subwoofer, to prevent damage and distortion.

A soundstage is the term used to describe where the sound apears to be coming from- in front, behind, up high, low down. ideally it should sound like the music is coming straight at you though the windscreen, but this is often very hard to achieve.