pogonation Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Hi, I am just wondering if it is worth spending tyhe extra money to buy a koxx xtp instead of a levelboss?? (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_Buchanan Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 (edited) NO (Y) stick with the levelboss.They seem to be the stronger of the two,not all that many differences between them either,xtp is the more compy frame of the two,but id stick with the levelboss. Lee Edited July 27, 2005 by Lee_Buchanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 x2 from me :D Yeah, it's just not worth the £300-odd extra, seeing as they seem to crack sooner. It'll look pimper, but to quote Benito: "They break quickly even in comp use" or summat like that. Just go for the Levelboss :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 yes. but dependant on what sort of riding you do (for most of my riding at the mo i would prefer an XTP, BUT i ride a levelboss as i know the strength and durability for my riding street and natural it will hold upto it sooooooooooo much more. OR the way to look at it is this: 1) are you a full on street rider???? thats when the answer becomes NO. 2) do you ride competitions/or more competition orientated riding for example natural more than street? and want one of the best frames around the answer would be YES the XTP is a super light weight frame designed for "Trials" use, you can use it on the street but due to the wall thickness of the tubes they will be more prone to denting. Waynio...................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 yes. but dependant on what sort of riding you do (for most of my riding at the mo i would prefer an XTP, BUT i ride a levelboss as i know the strength and durability for my riding street and natural it will hold upto it sooooooooooo much more. OR the way to look at it is this: 1) are you a full on street rider???? thats when the answer becomes NO. 2) do you ride competitions/or more competition orientated riding for example natural more than street? and want one of the best frames around the answer would be YES the XTP is a super light weight frame designed for "Trials" use, you can use it on the street but due to the wall thickness of the tubes they will be more prone to denting. Waynio...................................... ← I don't have the exact quote, but like I said - Benito apparently said it was too weak, even for use in comps. £750 with a totally shit warranty isn't great, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Arnold Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 are we talking mod or stock here people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 How long before someone links that OTN thread here? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamHolmes Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 LMAO! mark please tell me why he would say that????? he designed (in that i mean GEO) to that bike. they are weak (er) for street altho you dont se Mr Hermance breaking them, mind you when you look at benito dropping 15/16ft im not suprised they are weak??? are you???? hahahaha. look at what benito does compared to the likes of Vincent???? vincent is extremly good and is a smooth rider therefore doesnt break much or anything. benito can be classed as Mr joe bloggs if you dont care about something you will always be able to break it but with spending £750.00 i think you WOULD look after the frame/bike wouldnt you???? Waynio........................ if i had £700.00 to but i wouldnt be buying one of these Czer frames, i would prefer an original, if someone copied an aston martin vanquish and then said to you its 100% the same APART from it have 100bhp less???? what would you do??? id buy the vanquish original as your getting the BEST not something that has been copied like everyone seems to do with trials frames. its only my opinion though. some people may see it from a different point of view but what im relaly hitting is, people are copying trials frames BUT the copy does not ever ride half as good as an original, as something has to be changed on it as then it would break the copy right act or what have you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 LMAO! mark please tell me why he would say that????? he designed (in that i mean GEO) to that bike. they are weak (er) for street altho you dont se Mr Hermance breaking them, mind you when you look at benito dropping 15/16ft im not suprised they are weak??? are you???? hahahaha. look at what benito does compared to the likes of Vincent???? vincent is extremly good and is a smooth rider therefore doesnt break much or anything. benito can be classed as Mr joe bloggs if you dont care about something you will always be able to break it but with spending £750.00 i think you WOULD look after the frame/bike wouldnt you???? Waynio........................ if i had £700.00 to but i wouldnt be buying one of these Czer frames, i would prefer an original, if someone copied an aston martin vanquish and then said to you its 100% the same APART from it have 100bhp less???? what would you do??? id buy the vanquish original as your getting the BEST not something that has been copied like everyone seems to do with trials frames. its only my opinion though. some people may see it from a different point of view but what im relaly hitting is, people are copying trials frames BUT the copy does not ever ride half as good as an original, as something has to be changed on it as then it would break the copy right act or what have you ← First off, Wayne, I was told that quote by someone. I seem to remember a wee bit of trouble at Bike last year with his frame, but either way - his words, not mine. Secondly, you're going to be biased yourself anyway, aren't you? So you WOULD say go for the XTP? Either way, from the XTP stocks they just don't last long enough to justify the £750 with, like I said, a totally shit warranty. The Levelboss mods seem pretty damn strong themselves, and they're considerably cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Smith Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 the xtps 20's are like a load of tin cans glued together, there a complete load of bollocks, my mate had nowt but trouble with all 4 of his, so he got a python instead, wise decision and cheaper.......... regards ash :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddis Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 I would go with the levelboss personally as its a much stronger frame plus it will leave you with about £300 quid spare to upgrade if you must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishayton Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 right im sorry but how many of you have rode an xtp(26"). they are an amazing bike, the geo is amazing for abike with no rise. and my mate had a xtp for a year and it was still going strong when he sold it, just buy and armourdillo or something similar. Xtp's are the best trials frame out there and good for street as long as you dont mistreat it. and for people who say its not as strong as a leeson or similar for street then obviously it what be, but you wont buy a 1090w/b bike for street use would you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Garland Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 , but you wont buy a 1090w/b bike for street use would you ← Erm I ride street 95% of the time as hardly any natty round here and guess what, Ive got a 1090 wb bike. Just because its long doesnt mean you cant ride street on it, not bunny hops and shit as they are hard, I can still 180 it, manual it, i did a 360 tyre tap the other day. But I can also tap 42" etc on street. So that was a silly statement that you cant use a 1090 wb bike on street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Drewery Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Erm I ride street 95% of the time as hardly any natty round here and guess what, Ive got a 1090 wb bike. Just because its long doesnt mean you cant ride street on it, not bunny hops and shit as they are hard, I can still 180 it, manual it, i did a 360 tyre tap the other day. But I can also tap 42" etc on street. So that was a silly statement that you cant use a 1090 wb bike on street. ← I agree, i ride a 1080 t-rex and ride mainly street (UCI style though) and i can still 360 megaspin, manual, tyre tap etc on it no problems. I have recently started riding more natural though and enjoy the challenge more. A lot of street riders prefer longer frames now as taps and sidehops etc have become more popular and longer frames help these kind of moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Jordan Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I ride an xtp and it is absolutly awesome, i have owned a levelboss in the past (which was nice), but didn't compare to the xtp. Something which i find really nice, is that you don't have to encorporate a booster into your brake set up with an xtp as it's just so stiff, not only that but there are many points in this frame which make it ride immensly and you can tell some effort and thought has been put into the XTP. I ride a lot of natural and i also do comps and it's really nice to have the light weight of the frame to help keep you going that bit longer. The xtp has already helped me to get better, within the first ride on it i was already pushing myself more then on my old revell (which i didn't really suit and felt cramped on). Having said all this, I did not pay anywhere near £700 for the XTP and i am not sure i would, it's hard to justify spending that much when some of the new echo/ zoos etc (and even the levelboss) all seem to be nice frames. Also if you ride mostly street then i wouldn't get this frame, as nicely as it rides for everything; the downtube especially just will not be able to take the punishment from street riding (i have a hefty dent in mine and i hardly landed on it). So in conclusion (don't worry, i know this post isn't very well organised or paragraphed :) ) I would say that the xtp is the best frame i have ever ridden and with my bike now i am finally totally happy with the look/ride. The frame itself though has clearly been thought about and so i feel that it is worth more then some other frames, however the problem is not that it isn't worth the £700 price tag, but that £700 is a lot of money and many of us don't have that sitting around and that it takes a lot of hard earned work to get that amount of money meaning many will see it as rediculously overpriced without considering the amazing rie quality of this frame. You need to think about what you will be using the frame for, decide if it's right for your riding style and consider all other options, for instance; whether you feel you can justify shelling out that much money. if you feel an xtp would be good for you i think that you should go for it and shell out for a quality frame. Ta, george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Heh, I like the way Waynio brings up the Czar, and poo-poos it despite it being stronger and made from a better material than the XTP, and cheaper.... I think it would be compared to the XTP as the DBR9 is to the DB9, IF the DBR9 were cheaper than the DB9... if you wanna talk car metaphores... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 but the koxx riders get the for free , so if its weak but nrides nicely they wont exactly mind will they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Drewery Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Heh, I like the way Waynio brings up the Czar, and poo-poos it despite it being stronger and made from a better material than the XTP, and cheaper.... I think it would be compared to the XTP as the DBR9 is to the DB9, IF the DBR9 were cheaper than the DB9... if you wanna talk car metaphores... :) ← I know what you're saying, but waynios right. There is too much copying going on in trials with frames, rims, forks, pads, etc etc so it is nice to buy an original that has had some effort put into it and has the name to go with it. The czar frames do look like good value, but they are just copies of the xtp at the end of the day and i'm pretty sure that the xtp is lighter anyway despite being a little weaker. Koxx are a pure trials company, they make competition worthy frames and you will see that if you go to a world round like the one at addingham on sunday. They only sign riders that do well in competitions as that is what their bikes are designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I know what you're saying, but waynios right. There is too much copying going on in trials with frames, rims, forks, pads, etc etc so it is nice to buy an original that has had some effort put into it and has the name to go with it. The czar frames do look like good value, but they are just copies of the xtp at the end of the day and i'm pretty sure that the xtp is lighter anyway despite being a little weaker. Koxx are a pure trials company, they make competition worthy frames and you will see that if you go to a world round like the one at addingham on sunday. They only sign riders that do well in competitions as that is what their bikes are designed for. ← And charge rediculous prices for the privelige of it. Koxx seem to be the Ferrari if the trials world, outrages prices, but good machinery, although any extras will double the original cost of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Jordan Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I see where your coming from Andyroo but maybe not everyone will want a frame with a higher bb that is also going to be heavier then the xtp, you also talk about the Czar like it is proven, when we don't actually know how good the quality is and whether it will hold up in the real world). It is very easy for Czar to take the xtp tweak it and sell it for cheaper which may be a good thing but you are suggesting that the xtp is therefore a rip off, have you not considered that koxx had to put a lot of design and testing work into the xtp in order to get it to ride and function as nicely as it does. Czar didn't need to do all this did they, they just take the xtp (after all the work that warrents the extra money has been done) and charge less for it. george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I see where your coming from Andyroo but maybe not everyone will want a frame with a higher bb that is also going to be heavier then the xtp, you also talk about the Czar like it is proven, when we don't actually know how good the quality is and whether it will hold up in the real world). It is very easy for Czar to take the xtp tweak it and sell it for cheaper which may be a good thing but you are suggesting that the xtp is therefore a rip off, have you not considered that koxx had to put a lot of design and testing work into the xtp in order to get it to ride and function as nicely as it does. Czar didn't need to do all this did they, they just take the xtp (after all the work that warrents the extra money has been done) and charge less for it. george ← £700, testing or no, is a bit much for a frame whatever way you look at it... but not to worry, die hard Ferrari, er, I mean, Koxx fans will still buy the XTP because of the badge. In the end it will be down to, as you say, testing of the Czar, and purely personal preferance. If Koxx can pull off selling a frame for £700 then good on them, its the punters that choose to pay, Koxx don;t force them... If it was me I'd sell it for £700 :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Jordan Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I don't just mean testing i mean the design ideas (which when first put out were almost revolutionary in the trials world). But yeah i get what you are saying and i think in some ways you are right. I have an XTP but i don't think i would of shelled out £700 for it (i know i couldnt afford that), so basically, they are very expensive but i think it is justified in some respects and they do ride beautifully. ta, george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 LMAO! mark please tell me why he would say that????? he designed (in that i mean GEO) to that bike. they are weak (er) for street altho you dont se Mr Hermance breaking them, mind you when you look at benito dropping 15/16ft im not suprised they are weak??? are you???? hahahaha. look at what benito does compared to the likes of Vincent???? vincent is extremly good and is a smooth rider therefore doesnt break much or anything. benito can be classed as Mr joe bloggs if you dont care about something you will always be able to break it but with spending £750.00 i think you WOULD look after the frame/bike wouldnt you???? Waynio........................ if i had £700.00 to but i wouldnt be buying one of these Czer frames, i would prefer an original, if someone copied an aston martin vanquish and then said to you its 100% the same APART from it have 100bhp less???? what would you do??? id buy the vanquish original as your getting the BEST not something that has been copied like everyone seems to do with trials frames. its only my opinion though. some people may see it from a different point of view but what im relaly hitting is, people are copying trials frames BUT the copy does not ever ride half as good as an original, as something has to be changed on it as then it would break the copy right act or what have you ← yeah wwayne i understand you aswell. ive got a vinco yes i could of gone for the gu but i would much rather have the original thing the vinco. i can understand your views aswell. thanks ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 lets take a rain check: its pisisng it down up here in yorkshire............... and back to the topic what is it 1/2/3/4/5/6/7???maybe more world champions ride for koxx?????do you think that they wouldnt design the best bike in the world, altho the title "World Champion" must mean they ride bike thats crap and over expensive and so what???? if they can do it (as they seem to be doing very well at it who cares??) i take my opinion afte rriding many more frames than most people on this forum and i have noticed the more you spend the better quality you get its a fact of life!!!! spend £1 on an allen key as to £4 the £1 allen key is rounded off after half dozen goes, a £4 will last longer and not round off as the material is better/stronger. any way got no time for this am off out to get drunk in skipton. ta ta Waynio....................... il sen a pint down me levelboss frames head tube too i wonder if it can down it quicker than me :ermm:" :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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