Dang! Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I pulled this over from the vid section, as it belongs here-"44trials is a rider owned and driven company, our plan is to select key components and aspects of trials and improve upon or tweak things in the way that we wish the market will move. There are some things like rims and freewheels that just don't make sense to jump into just yet.I suspect a lot of this stuff is all made in the same place anyway... moving on...A big part of this for me is listening to other riders and hearing what they want, what they have experienced and developing my product around riders needs. Sure there are a lot of people spinning shit, but there are riders who really know what they are talking about and will pay for quality product that is designed around them.I know I am not the only one tired of large manufacturers deciding what I want, for me- Honestly I do want to compete with Koxx, I think they have lost touch a little. The 2009 line has some really aggressive geometry, that some pro's really want, but I'm not willing to pay that much to figure out if it works for me. Don't get me wrong, I want a Koxx just as much as the next guy- But I can make a frame as light, as strong, with geometry that suits my body and riding style.Koxx can't do that- Mr. Koxx doesn't give a damn about me and what I might want.Anyway-I am going to do my best to get some frames over to a few riders, hopefully they'll share. And I will also be sending some to Adam for testing next batch.As I am doing these one at a time, they are going to take time to build. For what they are $700.00 US is cheap. There is little I can do about the VAT, sorry.Hinmaton" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotropolis Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Looks preaty sweet, and for £430 (with todays exchange rate) isnt bad value for money either for what your getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 For what they are $700.00 US is cheap. There is little I can do about the VAT, sorry.Looks preaty sweet, and for £430 (with todays exchange rate) isnt bad value for money either for what your getting. £500+Looking really sweet though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotropolis Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) £500+Todays exchange rate= 1 U.S. dollar = 0.607053967 British pounds$700x0.607053967=£424.94£424.94/100x117=£285.45 Edited October 30, 2008 by neotropolis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Todays exchange rate= 1 U.S. dollar = 0.607053967 British pounds$700x0.607053967=£424.94£424.94/100x1175=£499.30Then we also have shipping from USA to UK and import duty. Still, it's a good price for a USA made frame I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotropolis Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 £499.30Then we also have shipping from USA to UK and import duty. Still, it's a good price for a USA made frame I believe.Yea, it is a preaty good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Adam,Is it true that if a larger shipment of frames was imported (say 10) then the total shipping and VAT cost would be divided amongst the 10 frames making the cost less per frame than importing one or two frames? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 as a standard frame, make the geo 1085, +40, 72*, 380 that pretty much is trials perfection imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Adam,Is it true that if a larger shipment of frames was imported (say 10) then the total shipping and VAT cost would be divided amongst the 10 frames making the cost less per frame than importing one or two frames?It's true to say that, but the VAT and duty is still applied to each frame individually. The only 'help' it would give is on the shipping cost, where the duty (which is applied on top of this) would be a little less as shipping cost per frame should be reduced.CheersAdam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 as a standard frame, make the geo 1085, +40, 72*, 380 that pretty much is trials perfection imoClose- The standard is:1085, +40, 71.5*,385This is only because of what works for me and the direct input from other riders, and there has to be a starting point.But the point is:Obviously this is not going to work for everyone, no one is really the same size. So: do you make do with a frame that want but a geo' you don't want, or by a frame just for its geo', or do you spend another £92.00 to get exactly what you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe@Onza Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Close- The standard is:1085, +40, 71.5*,385This is only because of what works for me and the direct input from other riders, and there has to be a starting point.But the point is:Obviously this is not going to work for everyone, no one is really the same size. So: do you make do with a frame that want but a geo' you don't want, or by a frame just for its geo', or do you spend another £92.00 to get exactly what you want?Novel idea, How do people know exactly what they want though? This aint a dig and I'm taking my Onza hat off now. Its just a general question so please dont take this comment as being difficult, Sometimes annoys me how I cant really pass comment on other peoples work. (By the way its a very attractive and orginal frame)Heres my question, I could say my perfect geo was 1090 +35 and 380 BUT what if it was actually 1100 and I should just adapt? Say I was amazing at tapping (ha ha, whatever I hear some people saying) So I buy a tapping machine, But would that make me a better rider overall? I could think my perfect bb height was +35 but what if i was +40? and if you know what your perfect geo rides like then surely you have already rode a frame with it?Its a graet idea though, hope it works out.What's the warranty on them? I mean what if you break it in 5 mins, Who do you moan to?Just a question how I should deal with my customers in say.........Iceland for example where I have no local dealer to resolve the issue for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Really like the frame design, whats the plans for the geo then? personally Id only look at the frame if the bb rise was below 30 i cant stand higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) Novel idea, How do people know exactly what they want though? This aint a dig and I'm taking my Onza hat off now. Its just a general question so please dont take this comment as being difficult, Sometimes annoys me how I cant really pass comment on other peoples work. (By the way its a very attractive and orginal frame)Heres my question, I could say my perfect geo was 1090 +35 and 380 BUT what if it was actually 1100 and I should just adapt? Say I was amazing at tapping (ha ha, whatever I hear some people saying) So I buy a tapping machine, But would that make me a better rider overall? I could think my perfect bb height was +35 but what if i was +40? and if you know what your perfect geo rides like then surely you have already rode a frame with it?Its a graet idea though, hope it works out.What's the warranty on them? I mean what if you break it in 5 mins, Who do you moan to?Just a question how I should deal with my customers in say.........Iceland for example where I have no local dealer to resolve the issue for me?No offense taken- and I hope non is taken by my reply:Your question is valid, well thought out, and well written- lets have some more of these!I think that deciding the perfect geometry for yourself might be comprised of personal experience on bikes you've owned, bikes you've ridden, where your ability lies,what type of riding you do, what type of body you have. Are you tall with a short torso, short with a long legs, stocky, lanky, just plain big, or small, ect...Through trial and error, you will come to a conclusion of what works for you. Or you can ask around, see what more experienced riders recommend.There is no standard or method of fitments at this point, but there is and endless list of opinions. Take Basher who posted right after you, he asked what the geo plan is,and then stated that he wouldn't ride anything over +30. So, even though his statement is not specific about exactly what he wants, we know that there are only so many frames available now with +30 and below- So he owns, or is going to buy something that fits this specification. There will be those who want some extreme change, IE Koxx and their +90 business. But Benito knows what he wants, and should have a frame that works for him,Benito can probably ride this like a god, but how many others can ride like him? And why would Koxx make it part of the line? On the other hand there are pro's out there ridingthe company frame and not liking the geo, but don't have a choice but to switch companies to get on something they like.If you don't know what you want, a custom geo probably isn't a wise investment. But if you do, I can't think of a better investment in yourself for your riding.As far as warranty- I think that I will warranty the frames for 6 months. But I am still working on this part.I will personally deal with people who are having issues with my product, I will stand behind my product until the day I drop gap 6 ft under. Edited October 31, 2008 by Dang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotropolis Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 No offense taken- and I hope non is taken by my reply:Your question is valid, well thought out, and well written- lets have some more of these!I think that deciding the perfect geometry for yourself might be comprised of personal experience on bikes you've owned, bikes you've ridden, where your ability lies,what type of riding you do, what type of body you have. Are you tall with a short torso, short with a long legs, stocky, lanky, just plain big, or small, ect...Through trial and error, you will come to a conclusion of what works for you. Or you can ask around, see what more experienced riders recommend.There is no standard or method of fitments at this point, but there is and endless list of opinions. Take Basher who posted right after you, he asked what the geo plan is,and then stated that he wouldn't ride anything over +30 or below. So, even though his statement is not specific about exactly what he wants, we know that there are only so many frames available now with +30 and below- So he owns, or is going to buy something that fits this specification. There will be those who want some extreme change, IE Koxx and their +90 business. But Benito knows what he wants, and should have a frame that works for him,Benito can probably ride this like a god, but how many others can ride like him? And why would Koxx make it part of the line? On the other hand there are pro's out there ridingthe company frame and not liking the geo, but don't have a choice but to switch companies to get on something they like.If you don't know what you want, a custom geo probably isn't a wise investment. But if you do, I can't think of a better investment in yourself for your riding.As far as warranty- I think that I will warranty the frames for 6 months. But I am still working on this part.I will personally deal with people who are having issues with my product, I will stand behind my product until the day I drop gap 6 ft under.I would agree with this in that the only way to realy decide what works best for you is to try out some frames with different geos and see what you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I am also willing to help work through geo questions and how they may apply to the ride. It has also been suggested that a guideline be developed. A range in which is allowable within the confines of the design. IE there is only so short a chainstay can be before the tire hits. I only recommend custom geo alterations to riders who know the difference, and aren't making a choice just for the sake of being different. There is also a point at which the choice becomes it's own design, this is fine, but will not be covered under the "custom geo' plan"what....gad damn right! I will build custom one-off frames. And it will have some twisted difficult to fabricate nature to it, like everything else I design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossMcd Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Add a disc mount and you may have a possible buyer here Really love the frame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyfox Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 The prototype frame in the pics actually has a removable rear disc mount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Add a disc mount and you may have a possible buyer here Really love the frame!I believe this is in the process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 The prototype frame in the pics actually has a removable rear disc mount pics? removable disc tabs = bad? didn't the koxx with the floating mounts [monsterboy?] tend to die? what would be the mount geometry? something similar to the simtra +40 design ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-baby158 Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I think the frame looks horried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 pics? removable disc tabs = bad? didn't the koxx with the floating mounts [monsterboy?] tend to die? what would be the mount geometry? something similar to the simtra +40 design ?The bracket keys into the rear drop out, and uses M6 bolts. Honestly it's untested at the moment, so I can't say whether it works or not. My thought is: many of us are using +20or +40 bolt-on adapters for our front disc, right? They work great. In fact I have never had a problem with them other than they can be pretty unfortunate looking.I think the frame looks horried.Really? Is that a real word?For shit sake, if your going to bash on someones work, at least have the common decency to use the spell check! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 A quick question:What stem would you recommend for that mod frame? I can see it not having much room at the front. It's a short wheelbase with a long back end. Also the bb isn't massive either. I know that would ride nice, but i'd just like to see what stem you'd recommend with it. My Megamo isn't far of that geo but i had to ride a Viz High Rise to actually ride it. And damn i was cramped! I'm just under 6' too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 I like that frame a lot. But vertical dropouts... what the hell?! WHY?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted November 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 A quick question:What stem would you recommend for that mod frame? I can see it not having much room at the front. It's a short wheelbase with a long back end. Also the bb isn't massive either. I know that would ride nice, but i'd just like to see what stem you'd recommend with it. My Megamo isn't far of that geo but i had to ride a Viz High Rise to actually ride it. And damn i was cramped! I'm just under 6' too.The mod frame is roughly based off the short Hydroxx with a few tweaks- This geometry is specific for a pro rider here in the states, who happens to be well under six feet.That being said- the "standard" geometry for the mod frame is yet to be determined. I am still looking for more input from the rider base. I posted this mod simply toillustrate what the mod looks like. Too answer your question directly: the stem being chosen for this frame is in fact a Viz Mod Logic stem 150mm, 30 deg. rise.I do see a lot of guys around the six foot range riding older smaller mods, maybe there is a really good reason? I would recomend a frame that has a longer wheel base and longer reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Beach Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 What is the weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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